More Breaker issues

[NorCalSteve]

Well, this is probably my own fault but I am still bothered by it. This is a problem related to running the refrigerator on DC after I rewired the DC power to the refrigerator.

To get a higher voltage to the refrigerator, I ran 8 gauge wire directly to the refrigerator from the battery. To better understand how well it is now working on DC, I plugged my Hawk into AC but ran the fridge on DC. Since the draw of the refrigerator would be about 13 amps, I felt the 30 amp built in charger should be able to keep up with things. But this morning, my batteries were pretty much dead and the 30 amp breaker by the batteries was clicking on and off. I shut down the refrigerator and bypassed the breaker while I use the camper charger to get the battery charged back up.

It could be I have a bad cell in one of the batteries so there is excessive current draw from the charger trying to charge the batteries (two 75 AH batteries). I would have thought that the charger in the camper would have been able to keep up with the 13 amp draw from the refrigerator. The outside temperature here was in the high 80s when I headed to bed so the refrigerator was on continuously until I got up and shut things off.

Before I modified the wiring for the refrigerator, the refrigerator was connected to the breaker box along with the camper charger. By moving the refrigerator power to the battery (bypass the fuse box), the camper charger connects to the refrigerator through the battery, which is a much longer wire run than before. I am going to need to look at things closer but don't plan on running the refrigerator on DC unless driving until I come up with a solution. Any thoughts are welcome.

Steve

 

[K7MDL]

I am not clear on where the 30amp breaker you referred to is. I think it is between the battery and other DC loads since you bypassed it to charge. So what is between the battery and refrigerator?

If the refrigerator is rated a 13amp draw then there is no way it will pop a properly working 30amp breaker unless there is a fault in the unit or a pinched/shorting wire.

If the batteries voltage is around 12V then they won't need 30amps either, and I doubt you have 30amps worth of load so your DC converter should have been able to supply the refrigerator just fine.

So the question is what happens when your batteries are fully charged? Do they get fully charged? Over about 12.5vdc when off the charger for some time with significant loads on. Put a voltmeter on the battery and turn on your refrigerator and watch what happens to the voltage. If it starts diving down to 10.5V fast, and your batteries were charged, your converter is on (and assumed to work properly), then there is a fault in the refrigerator end/wiring drawing way too much current.

 

[NorCalSteve]

It is not easy to track all the wiring but here is how I think the wiring currently is. Yes, I think the breaker is between the load and the battery separator and batteries. It is one of the small rectangle auto-reset breakers.

What I did a week or two back was remove the fuse from the fuse box and disconnect the DC power and ground at the refrigerator. I installed 8 gauge wire (power and ground) directly from the battery to the refrigerator. This did improve the DC voltage at the battery, which is why I did it.

I went camping and returned yesterday afternoon. On the drive home, I ran the refrigerator on DC. I mention this because maybe my battery was not charging off the truck on the trip home for some reason. It was about a four hour drive with a few stops along the way (I left the fridge on DC for all the stops). When I got home, I connected AC to the camper and switched the fridge between AC and DC a few times for a few hours and watched the refrigerator temp to see if I noticed a difference in cooling between the two. It was about 95 out and neither AC or DC seemed to be able to cool the refrigerator. At around 10:00pm. I picked DC and headed to bed. The camper is still plugged into AC but the fridge is on DC. This morning, the 30 amp breaker was hot and clicking. The refrigerator interior was warming up and ice was melting in the freezer. I measured about 11.5 volts this morning on the battery with the AC disconnected.

I know the breaker is labeled for polarity. When charging the battery, the current will be going in the opposite direction. I don't know why it would matter but the breaker is polarized. Just wondering.

Maybe the alternator in the truck was not charging the camper batteries on the trip home and I did not realize it. If this was the case, I would have been down about 40 AH when I got home.

I have ordered a 70 amp manual reset breaker to replace both the breaker under the hood and the breaker by the batteries. I am a little nervous about using a manual reset because I may not know that it tripped but also like the idea that it is not continually tripping and I don't know it. It will be a few days before they arrive, which gives me time to decide if I really want to use them or not.

I am having second thoughts about my modification to boost the voltage to the refrigerator. I may be better off by just using a heavier gauge wire from the fuse box to the refrigerator rather than running a second line. It also seems like moving the camper charger closer to the batteries could be a better solution. Not that I would need to charge the batteries using the camper charger often if my truck and solar panel are connecting when they should.

I will post more later.

Steve

 

[pods8]

It is not easy to track all the wiring but here is how I think the wiring currently is. Yes, I think the breaker is between the load and the battery separator and batteries. It is one of the small rectangle auto-reset breakers.


Something off here, the battery separator should have nothing to do with being between your aux batteries and camper loads. Its only function is to be between your vehicle and aux battery.

 

[NorCalSteve]

Yeah, I am pretty sure that is how it is hooked up. It is hard to see. Although I will take a closer look at it tomorrow to be sure.

Steve

 

[Roger]

Well, this is probably my own fault ...

Before I modified the wiring for the refrigerator, the refrigerator was connected to the breaker box along with the camper charger. By moving the refrigerator power to the battery (bypass the fuse box), the camper charger connects to the refrigerator through the battery, which is a much longer wire run than before. I am going to need to look at things closer but don't plan on running the refrigerator on DC unless driving until I come up with a solution. Any thoughts are welcome.

Steve

Steve,
Have you checked to make sure your wire from the battery to the fridge is solid?
Do you have a fuse between the battery and the 'fridge now? (you probably should).
Umm, reverse your alteration and see what works and does not work.

Are you using a 3 way fridge? Have you tried a computer fan and stove pipe upgrade?

http://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/index.php?/topic/4980/

My thoughts...

 

[NorCalSteve]

Thanks for the info Roger,

My problem seems to be that the battery went dead while I was running the refrigerator on DC and the camper was connected to AC. Or I drained the battery down excessively before I connected the camper to AC. The battery should have stayed charged because the 30 amp charger in the camper should have maintained the charge on the battery. I have checked the connections to the Fridge and things look good.

Since I set the refrigerator on DC for the drive home from camping (4 hours), which includes about an hour of stops along the way, I am thinking that maybe the battery was not being charged or stopped being charged along the way.

I have a volt meter connected to the battery but it was on the charger side of the 30 amp breaker so it would just show around 13.4 volts if the breaker was open, which it did. I My morning project is to finish getting a full charge on the camper batteries and rewire the voltmeter directly to the battery so I am monitoring the right thing.

I may never know why the battery went dead but I am thinking that the batteries did not charge on the trip home from camping or after I got home and connected to AC. I suspect the 30 amp breaker needs to be a little larger but could also be tripping at a lower current. In another thread, I talked about the 30 amp breaker under the hood maybe tripping while I was driving. Now I see the 30 amp breaker by the camper battery tripping.

My current plan, based on input from members here, is to replace both the breaker under the hood (between the truck battery and camper) and the breaker in the camper between the battery and the fuse box with 70 amp manual reset breakers. If one of them trips, I will need to reset it manually. For me, I think the good of a manual reset breaker outweighs the bad. Time will tell. And, I have a few days to change my mind.

I have added two computer fans to the refrigerator vents. And plan to add some baffling for better airflow behind the fridge as well. The link you sent me will help me with the baffling. Thanks!

Steve

 

[NorCalSteve]

Well, I think my problem is the breaker that is between the camper batteries and distribution box. I ran the battery down by putting the refrigerator on DC for about 5 hours and then plugged in AC to the camper. Again, the battery charger in the camper connects to the batteries through the 30 amp breaker. And the breaker got warm and started tripping. I had a 20 amp breaker handy so I quickly swapped in the 20 amp breaker. If the 20 amp breaker did not trip, and it did not, the 30 amp breaker must be bad. I just hope the problem stays away after I install a new (correct size) breaker. Too often, I think I have something fixed and it comes back to haunt me again.

I was pretty convinced that the charger must be delivering close to or over 30 amps and causing the breaker to trip but that does not appear to be the case.

Thanks to everyone who helped me on this problem.

Steve

 

[DanoT]

I don't own an FWC so maybe I'm off the mark here but I don't think too many RVs come with converters that have built in 30amp AC chargers. I think my 2011 Phoenix camper has a multi-stage 8 amp charger.

When I'm winter camping at ski area parking lots my 20k btu furnace with I think a 3 or 4amp DC draw, drains my battery in 24 hours. So I plug my camper into my generator daily to charge the camper battery. I turn off the propane furnace and run a 900watt electric heater because I know that if I run my furnace on a low battery the charger will struggle to deliver a full charge while the battery is being drained by the furnace.

A fridge that draws 13 amps on DC is likely a 3 way as AC/DC only fridges are designed to run on DC with a low amp draw and 3 way are supposed to only run on DC when the engine is on and the battery is getting a charge.

3 way fridges cool best when run on propane but at 95 degrees they will struggle to keep things cool even when running on propane. The use of an after market fan at the back (plumbing part)of the fridge does help. A flashlight battery powered fan inside the fridge can also help by circulating cool air more evenly.

 

[NorCalSteve]

My Hawk camper came with a IOTA DLS 30 Power Converter/Battery Charger. It probably is just a 13.6 volt power source that doubles as a battery charger.

I also have a built in heater. It works well on cold mornings to warm the camper before I get dressed. Without the Arctic Pack, as soon as I turn the heater off, the temperature drops like a rock. I am not sure how much power it draws. But it does not take any time at all to warm things up a bit in the camper.

I have 150 AH of batteries so I should be able to run the refrigerator on DC for an hour, but should probably have some driving time planned after my stop to charge up the batteries again before setting up camp. Yes, it is a 3 way refrigerator. I still like the idea of powering the refrigerator on DC while driving.

I like the battery fan idea for the back of the fridge. It is interesting, and makes me question, why the manufacturer of the refrigerator does not add a very small fan. Seems safer than me doing it.

I just replaced the suspect circuit breaker. Heading out for three nights of camping tomorrow. I expect things to work much better now.

Steve