New camper on Titan and question about airbag install gone wrong

[srileo]

All,

I bought a used '08 Pro 4X with 80k miles on it last month, and just this past weekend, we put on a new FWC Hawk on it. Trip report coming i promise!! I am brand-new to trucks and my previous car was Miata, so the Titan feels slightly different to drive

The Titan pulls fine, though i can feel the weight of it. Per advise from the Titan forums, I was careful with putting it in 4th almost all the time, except going downhill or absolutely flat.

Questions:

1. What are ideal RPMS for driving with that much weight on the back? I noticed that WITHOUT the camper, in Drive mode, at 65mph, i was doing around 1800rpms. WITH the camper, i think i am at around 2100-2300 RPM on average, in 4th. Normal and safe RPMS?

2. I and a friend installed the Firestone AirBags a week before the camper install and unfortunately, i discovered that i am leaking air by quite a bit. I haven't diagnosed where the leak is, but will try the soap+water treatment shortly. I read somewhere that people have tried some silicone rubber treatment near the brass nozzle. Can anyone confirm? Any other advise before we get into it next week? Firestone will only help after we find out where the leak is.

Thanks all for your advise over the past year that i have been lurking on here. I am very excited to join you folks!

Sri and Jess

 

[Casa Escarlata Robles Too]

Welcome to WTW and your new camper looks great.You might check all the fittings,that may be the source of the leak.
The Firestone system seems to be very reliable,so a leaking hose or fitting would be my first guess.
Frank

 

[chris@rmfwc.com]

The Titan pulls fine, though i can feel the weight of it. Per advise from the Titan forums, I was careful with putting it in 4th almost all the time, except going downhill or absolutely flat.

Questions:

1. What are ideal RPMS for driving with that much weight on the back? I noticed that WITHOUT the camper, in Drive mode, at 65mph, i was doing around 1800rpms. WITH the camper, i think i am at around 2100-2300 RPM on average, in 4th. Normal and safe RPMS?

2. I and a friend installed the Firestone AirBags a week before the camper install and unfortunately, i discovered that i am leaking air by quite a bit. I haven't diagnosed where the leak is, but will try the soap+water treatment shortly. I read somewhere that people have tried some silicone rubber treatment near the brass nozzle. Can anyone confirm? Any other advise before we get into it next week?

Welcome to the Four Wheel Camper Family!

I'll keep my advice quick:

1) The FWC is so light you shouldn't need to shift out of drive mode (automatic transmission) in order to drive around with your FWC unless you find that the truck is constantly downshifting due to the extra weight, say in the case of going up a steep grade over a mountain pass. I would leave it in drive mode and see what you think. The V8 in that Titan is more than sufficient to haul your Hawk. In my opinion there is no reason to run higher RPM's thus burning more fuel unless you really feel like you need it. I understand the reasoning behind the advice you were given but the reality is that you are not towing a big 5th wheel or gaint truck camper with slides-outs where that recommendation to shift into 4th (or lower) would ring true. There will be curcumstances where it will make sense for you to shift into a lower gear but to just drive around all the time in 4th seems unnecessary. If you were to add a trailer of ATV’s or a power boat than maybe it would make sense but you’re probably ok in drive. See how your transmission responds to around the town driving in regular drive and if its not constantly downshifting to keep up, you're good to go.


2) We install airbags on over half the trucks that come into our shop for campers. Airbags rarely leak and is typically the fittings. However, keep in mind that even in cases when you get leaks/bubbles at the fitting it may not be the fitting itself and instead the way the line was inserted into the fitting OR the way the fitting was inserted into the bag.

a) The brass fittings themselves should have some red color sealant on the threads and you want to make sure that the fitting was screwed into the airbag far enough to really seat that sealant around the hole you’re fastening the fitting to. Hopefully your friend screwed the fittings in all the way.

b Next step is cutting the airline square AND not crushing it during the cut. Classic example is using side cutters to cut the air line; where they squeeze/crush the line flat during the cut causing damage and then not making for a good connection into the fitting later. While you may be able to get away with careful razor cutting, a real tubing cutter such as this is a nice way to make the cuts consistent time and time again. Bottom line is that you need to make certain that you don’t deform the end of the line even if it is square.

c) Seating the line into the fitting. Once you have confirmed that you have a clean square cut and that the line was not damaged during the cut, seat it into the fitting. You may notice that the line barely goes in at first and then with a second, deliberate, and square push the line seats the rest of the way down into the fitting. You can even feel it stop moving when you get familiar with it. I won’t go into detail here but there is a procedure for releasing the line by holding part of the air fitting back while also pulling the airline out.


3) I don’t know of any silicone sealant people are using to seal the fittings on airbags. That just seems like a band aid fix rather than really solving the problem. The reality is that if you have the fittings, lines, etc installed correctly you should see very little loss of air in the bags. It’s not uncommon to see one bag drop 10psi over the course of the month with material expansion and contraction under normal temperature changes. However, you don’t want to have it dropping 10psi overnight and if you do, that is a clear sign of a leak that needs to be addressed.

Best of luck to you!

Cheers,

 

[ski3pin]

Sri & Jess -
Welcome to the pop up world. We do look forward to photos and trip reports. I second the insights that Chris has given - thanks Chris - You will soon get to know your truck and how best to drive it. No need to stay in a lower gear, except as Chris points out, your transmission is wanting to continually downshift.
Best of luck. When is (or was) the first trip?

 

[Marshfly]

I have to disagree on using the tow/haul mode with a camper on the truck. If your Nissan is programmed anything like my Ford, it does all sorts of cool things while in Tow/haul mode. I never realized this before as I live in south Louisiana and haven't ever towed or hauled anything in the mountains. With that mode engaged, my truck will hold gears to keep speed from building on a downhill. A quick tap of the brakes and it does a downshift and holds it until the road levels out. Another tap, another downshift. It holds the gear all the way down the grade as long as you don't touch the gas pedal. Coolest thing ever and doesn't happen without the button pressed. Also, it will still run in top gear with tow/haul engaged so no real mileage penalty.

Also, I've got firestone bags installed on my 2009 F150. No leaks over the past 10,000 miles or so. It's an install problem almost certainly. Go over everything with a spray bottle with soapy water and you'll find the culprit.

 

[srileo]

Chris,
thank you for this phenomenally useful advise. I shall certainly try Drive again and like you correctly observed, it did not really hunt unless on an incline. The gas savings will be welcomed.

I think your suspicions of where the airbag leaks might occur is likely spot on. We did not really thread the brass fitting all the way in. We only went 3 threads or so because it was actually quite difficult to turn the brass fitting at the angle at which we were working did not allow us to get a good grip on it from the top and there wasnt enough room for our wrench at the bottom of the fitting. We will try again and go in all the way.

1) Do you know what the name of the sealant is so i can buy some locally?
2) In case we mangled the brass fittings trying to screw them on tight, are they a standard item easily purchased locally?

I'll call Firestone tomorrow and see if they can advise.

Thanks a lot for your really useful advise. I appreciate it immensely!

Sri

Welcome to the Four Wheel Camper Family!

I'll keep my advice quick:

1) The FWC is so light you shouldn't need to shift out of drive mode (automatic transmission) in order to drive around with your FWC unless you find that the truck is constantly downshifting due to the extra weight, say in the case of going up a steep grade over a mountain pass. I would leave it in drive mode and see what you think. The V8 in that Titan is more than sufficient to haul your Hawk. In my opinion there is no reason to run higher RPM's thus burning more fuel unless you really feel like you need it. I understand the reasoning behind the advice you were given but the reality is that you are not towing a big 5th wheel or gaint truck camper with slides-outs where that recommendation to shift into 4th (or lower) would ring true. There will be curcumstances where it will make sense for you to shift into a lower gear but to just drive around all the time in 4th seems unnecessary. If you were to add a trailer of ATV’s or a power boat than maybe it would make sense but you’re probably ok in drive. See how your transmission responds to around the town driving in regular drive and if its not constantly downshifting to keep up, you're good to go.


2) We install airbags on over half the trucks that come into our shop for campers. Airbags rarely leak and is typically the fittings. However, keep in mind that even in cases when you get leaks/bubbles at the fitting it may not be the fitting itself and instead the way the line was inserted into the fitting OR the way the fitting was inserted into the bag.

a) The brass fittings themselves should have some red color sealant on the threads and you want to make sure that the fitting was screwed into the airbag far enough to really seat that sealant around the hole you’re fastening the fitting to. Hopefully your friend screwed the fittings in all the way.

b Next step is cutting the airline square AND not crushing it during the cut. Classic example is using side cutters to cut the air line; where they squeeze/crush the line flat during the cut causing damage and then not making for a good connection into the fitting later. While you may be able to get away with careful razor cutting, a real tubing cutter such as this is a nice way to make the cuts consistent time and time again. Bottom line is that you need to make certain that you don’t deform the end of the line even if it is square.

c) Seating the line into the fitting. Once you have confirmed that you have a clean square cut and that the line was not damaged during the cut, seat it into the fitting. You may notice that the line barely goes in at first and then with a second, deliberate, and square push the line seats the rest of the way down into the fitting. You can even feel it stop moving when you get familiar with it. I won’t go into detail here but there is a procedure for releasing the line by holding part of the air fitting back while also pulling the airline out.


3) I don’t know of any silicone sealant people are using to seal the fittings on airbags. That just seems like a band aid fix rather than really solving the problem. The reality is that if you have the fittings, lines, etc installed correctly you should see very little loss of air in the bags. It’s not uncommon to see one bag drop 10psi over the course of the month with material expansion and contraction under normal temperature changes. However, you don’t want to have it dropping 10psi overnight and if you do, that is a clear sign of a leak that needs to be addressed.

Best of luck to you!

Cheers,

 

[srileo]

Marshfly,
i havent actually played with the Tow button, I have been braking all the way downhill! what you describe seems like what we do with downshifting with motorcycles. makes sense. Cant wait to try it!

I do like the Titan quite a bit, and am just hoping to get the best possible mileage and torque possible. I'll ping you separately about your experiences with your Titan.

Sri

I have to disagree on using the tow/haul mode with a camper on the truck. If your Nissan is programmed anything like my Ford, it does all sorts of cool things while in Tow/haul mode. I never realized this before as I live in south Louisiana and haven't ever towed or hauled anything in the mountains. With that mode engaged, my truck will hold gears to keep speed from building on a downhill. A quick tap of the brakes and it does a downshift and holds it until the road levels out. Another tap, another downshift. It holds the gear all the way down the grade as long as you don't touch the gas pedal. Coolest thing ever and doesn't happen without the button pressed. Also, it will still run in top gear with tow/haul engaged so no real mileage penalty.

Also, I've got firestone bags installed on my 2009 F150. No leaks over the past 10,000 miles or so. It's an install problem almost certainly. Go over everything with a spray bottle with soapy water and you'll find the culprit.

 

[srileo]

ski3pin,
thanks for the warm welcome.
i have to fairly lay the blame on you for getting the truck camper bug from your most excellent blog. I followed almost all of your stories and delighted in your writing and insights into western history and geography.
For our first trip, we took the truck straight from Woodland to Harbin hot springs near in the Lake county near mendocino natl forest where we spent the night and morning and had to rush back home to keep an appt.
However, this weekend, we hope to really take the truck out for a 2 nights and get our first unhurried feel for it. These first few trips will be strictly on paved and familiar roads and i hope in a few months, i will know enough about the truck to start venturing out to places like you do.

Sri

Sri & Jess -
Welcome to the pop up world. We do look forward to photos and trip reports. I second the insights that Chris has given - thanks Chris - You will soon get to know your truck and how best to drive it. No need to stay in a lower gear, except as Chris points out, your transmission is wanting to continually downshift.
Best of luck. When is (or was) the first trip?

 

[Ted]

i have to fairly lay the blame on you for getting the truck camper bug from your most excellent blog.

Welcome srileo. Your comment to ski3pin above made me laugh. I already have a camper, camp often with the 3pins, and still look forward to new entries in his blog.

Good luck with the airbags. I have not heard of them leaking before so needing to tighten the fittings makes sense. Like a bicycle tire, they do lose pressure over time. I usually check mine before each trip. But I'm talking about 5 psi a month, so no big deal. Happy camping.

 

[srileo]

Just a quick update on the topic. After some researching and talking to Chris (RM FWC), i aired up the bags to 80 psi to do the soap and water test succesfully and surprise of surprises, it showed no leaking air bubbles! Its been holding steady for a few days. I am pleasantly relieved but i know am not out of the woods yet. Will keep an eye on the bags and hope for the best.

Next up, looking for a good rearview camera. And have this guy in mind: Will research some more before posting on here with my thoughts.

 

[Lighthawk]

Yes, many of us can fairly lay blame on Ski's most excellent blog : )

Glad the mysterious leak went away, Sri.
Looking forward to reading about your excellent adventures. Welcome to WTW