New Member with Used Keystone

[ckent323]

Greetings everyone. I recently purchased a 1984 Keystone. I stumbled across this website while searching the web for repair parts and improvement info and have been reading a number of forum posts over the past several weeks.

My Keystone needs work and I am seeking some advice on replacing the pop-up tent portion, which leaks, as well as the cab over bed floor which has water damage. I will also need to replace the fold up end panels supporting the roof as well as some lesser problems.

I have traded emails with Stan and Chicali at FWC and Ben at ATC. Thanks to you all for the information.

I need to decide what, if any, work I can do myself and for that which I cannot do I will need to figure out how to get the camper to FWC for the repair work as I live near Santa Barbara, CA.

I am pretty handy at general construction and all around home maintenance but not as experienced at finish type work.

I am going to attempt to attach a few jpegs.

Thanks to all for the great info I have already gotten from your posts.

Ckent323

 

[Marc]

ckent323,

Welcome. I think you will find that most of the fix's you need to do have been well covered in detail. Do a search and i think you will find alot of information and photos. Don't be afraid to ask. The wealth of information and the willingness to help others is abundent on this forum.

Marc

 

[ckent323]

I should have said that I am seeking advice on what to try to repair and what to leave to the pros.

I have a couple of additional questions.

I added a pic of the Top. It has little "putty" spots in every place where I suspect there are rivets or fasteners. Do I need to worry about leaking through the top around the fasteners? As far as I can tell the there are no holes in the top and I see no obvious signs of water damage inside the top. The water stains seem to be around the inside top and bottom edges and mainly at the front and at the back in the area around the fold up panels.

I am suspicious that the interface between the tent side and the top has leaked or is leaking and I am assuming that will get remedied when the tent material is replaced.

Anyone have experience with these?

Thanks,

Ckent323

 

[bobva]

welcome

heres some great stuff for the roof supports

http://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=726

cab over repair here

http://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=663

 

[WarpathEngineering]

CKent323,

I wish you luck on your project! It seems your going thru exactly what I started this past summer. My bed floor was rotted in the same place, leaky flexable sides, almost non existent fold up end panels, nasty roof. The list goes on and on and on, just ask my wife.

None of the repairs are really hard if your handy, patient, have a dry place to work and have the money to stick into it. My dad always said I'd either have a new car payment or an old car repair payment. That could be translated to used campers as well.

The bed board will come out easy enough. Mine pretty much was persuaded enough with the butt end of a hammer handle. Just fell right out, in pieces of course. The hard part is cleaning up all the caulking and corrosion on the aluminum. It was originally put in before the front was welded together so you'll have to cut the new board short about a 1/4" or so all around to drop it in. Just caulk it good first!

The liner isn't much of a problem, I don't think. At one time I had the roof of my camper off and upside down on a set of saw horses. Never detached the sides from the top but it went back together easy enough. It helps to have a friend or two who take directions, just to help keep it straight when re-attaching it. I did mine myself. It helps to have a nice sunny warm day too! Mine needs total replacement however. One word of advice. If you think your top may be leaking and you plan to take the top off your camper completely, set it out in the yard on a set of saw horses. Take a small yard sprinkler and place it on top. Get one of your kids to crawl under the top and check for leaks. I guess you can do this with the top still on the camper too. What your probably experiencing is either condensation building up inside and rotting away the bed board and end panels, or holes in the liner. When the top is down, you souldn't be getting rain water into the folds of the liner but I do and I think it's condensation. Both problems with condensation and the holes in the liner would have been solved if the pervious owner(s) would have lifted the top once and a while to let the camper air out, and sprayed the 303protectant on the liner to keep it soft. Mine has pin holes in the folds and the fabric has pulled to the point that I can see daylight thru the stiching around the windows. The clear covers over the windows are so deformed that they will no longer seal. All these things are allowing the water to come in.

The lifting panels, I'm still working on. I made the unfortunate choice of taking them into work and had a co-worker pitch the spring loaded hinges. Only place to get them is FWC or ATC. They're not cheap either.

Good luck with the repair. Sometimes I wish I could have just dropped my camper off at FWC with a blank check and asked them to fix it. Then the problem would have been the commute from KY.

Rick

 

[homemade]

Rick, how much does ATC/FWC charge for the spring loaded hinges. Purely curiosity but I was never able to locate similar spring loaded hinges when I built mine so I just used regular stainless steel piano hinges for the end panel supports and designed my own gas spring lift (personally I think the midpoint roof is a better lift spot so the roof is supported at ends and midpoint but this probably wouldn’t work with the FWC construction).

Ckent, I bet you could make your own fabric sidewall if you are willing to accept a bit of a DIY look. From what I have read on other posts it sounds like the liner is held in place with riveted trim pieces. The liner material you can easily buy, probably total cost of materials

 

[WarpathEngineering]

Homemade,

I can't quite recall the price of the hinges. I know Ben is cheaper than FWC. I would have had to buy all 6 hinges, I think it was somewhere around $130. Ben told me that they buy 6' piano hinges, take them apart, cut a couple of tabs off and when re-installing the pin, thread on the springs. It's an in house afair. That's what drives up the price. I'm in the plant maintenance field and I've checked all over for spring loaded hinges and the longest I've come up with is 24".

The price brings me to another point. When I took my camper apart, my lifting boards were so soggy that the roof was about 2 inches shy of being at full height. When I removed the lifting boards the liner was covered in mold and mildew (thanks to the previous owner). When I thought about it, I really wanted some type of mechanism that would not rot in the future and would prevent a hidden area for mold or mildue to return. For those reasons, I started to design a lifting framework made out of round steel tubing. The first prototype was a little crude but was a very solid lifting mechanism and in my mind actually made it easier to lift the lid due to its sturdiness. It was infact cheaper to buy the steel needed than to buy the hinges. This however does not account for trial and error, something that always has a hidden cost involved.

That being said, I'm fully aware that FWC and now ATC have made a name for themselves in no small part to the original designer's roof lifting device. I applaud the simplicity and inginuity of the design. Right, Wrong, or Indifferent, like most men, I like to do things the hard way!

On another note. Has anyone heard or used a product called Liquid Roof? I came across their website today and am very interested. Unsure of the weight it would add but for someone who has several, I'll say stress cracks in his roof it may be just the answer short of replacing the roof tin. Check it out. http://www.liquidroof.com/index.html

 

[homemade]

$130 for six reworked hinges sounds like a bargain to me. Good luck with your roof lift design Rick.

 

[ckent323]

Wow! I had seen the thread on BenG's fold up panel replacement but somehow I missed the bed floor replacement thread by Sev3en. The inside of Sev3en's camper in the beginning looks like mine right now! He has been doing a great job. From the dates on the posts it seems like he made rapid progress.

Bobva, thanks for pasting in those links. I need to get a little better at searching it seems.

Also appreciate the comments from WarpathEngineering and others.

My thoughts are that it should be easier to see where the real problems areas are if I clean the fabric up a little better (I think the staining is making things look worse than they may be). I saw a post stating WD-40 was successfully used to clean the pop-up material so I am going to start by using a little WD-40 on a spot or two and see if that gets the black stuff off. It that doesn't work I will go find the 303 and try that.

If I am able to clean up the tent material I may be able to see where things are leaking and hopefully I can solve the problems using VLP. If that does not work I will buy a new pop-up tent.

I have a roto zip and a table saw and am inclined to replace the bed floor myself. It also seems that replacing the pop-up sides may be a job I can do as well. So I will hold off in the floor till I sort out the pop-up problem and do everything at once as required.

Questions:

Seems like the only support for the bed floor over the cab is the aluminum frame that curves around it. I think I read that it is welded to the rest of the camper frame. In fact I think I read that the whole frame is welded. Has that always been true even for these older units?

Is there any history of cracks developing at the camper body where that portion attaches? Seem like the load from two adults sleeping up there could be high enough to fatigue that interface.

Where are the best places to get VLP and 303? I am in Solvang, CA between Santa Maria and Santa Barbara. The big box stores like HD and the national hardware stores (Osh and Ace) are around but not sure about RV places.

From what I have read I think I can tackle most of this stuff so in the end availability of my time will probably dictate how much I do and whether or not I can figure out a convenient way to get the camper to FWC to use their labor.

Thanks again to everyone, this is a great forum.

Ckent323

www.wild-ideas.net

 

[ckent323]

I just noticed the posting time is Today 6:20 PM but my computer says 10:20 AM. Is the hosting server in some other country?

 

[DirtyDog]

I just noticed the posting time is Today 6:20 PM but my computer says 10:20 AM. Is the hosting server in some other country?

The server is in new york. In the settings in the user CP you should check to see that you have specified the time zone you are in.

 

[ckent323]

Thanks DirtyDog.

I missed that set up feature. Apparently the default is GMT London.

It is correct now.

 

[HERR42]

New York City!!!

i didnt know they ran western servers all the out there....

dad gummed Internet city folks!

 

[BenG]

Ckent if you have any questions about the rebuild on the lift support feel free to drop me an e mail. wasnt that hard to do.

 

[chnlisle]

You sound like the Pace Picante Sauce promo.

 

[benburnett]

answers

Seems like the only support for the bed floor over the cab is the aluminum frame that curves around it. I think I read that it is welded to the rest of the camper frame. In fact I think I read that the whole frame is welded. Has that always been true even for these older units?

Is there any history of cracks developing at the camper body where that portion attaches? Seem like the load from two adults sleeping up there could be high enough to fatigue that interface.

Where are the best places to get VLP and 303? I am in Solvang, CA between Santa Maria and Santa Barbara. The big box stores like HD and the national hardware stores (Osh and Ace) are around but not sure about RV places.

From what I have read I think I can tackle most of this stuff so in the end availability of my time will probably dictate how much I do and whether or not I can figure out a convenient way to get the camper to FWC to use their labor.

Thanks again to everyone, this is a great forum.

Ckent323

www.wild-ideas.net

The bed support has never had any cracks or ever sagged on a camper that I am aware of. That beam actually runs the full length of the camper. I have seen over 400 pounds put in the front of camper in the bed area without any problems.

Your frame is welded even in the older campers.

If you do a google search for the VLP vinyl glue and 303 on google you should be able to find a local store that carries it. I know the VLP is sold a lot of places. The 303 may be another problem to find though. Here is a link of a place that you can order it from if you can't find it.

http://www.303products.com/tech/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=428

Feel free to call anytime also if you have some questions. I would rather talk than type any day.

 

[ckent323]

Ben,

Yeah, email gets old but I work pretty long hours 5 - 6 days a week so email is often my best means of communicating outside normal business hours. I do have questions I am saving for the phone call once I can get a decent lunch break.

I found a place that stocks 303 and will pick some up this weekend. I am also happy to learn the welds are there and strong with no history of problems. One less thing to fuss about.

Thanks,

Ckent

 

[DLN]

Ckent,
Welcome aboard. It looks like you've got quite a project going there, as you've already seen the amount of advise and expertize available on the forum is amazing. Best of Luck and keep us posted.

 

[benburnett]

phone

ckent323, you can call just about anytime. The phone comes directly to me and the normal hours of 8 to 5 just don't apply to this business or any other that I have for that matter. If the phone is in reach and I am not sleeping I will be happy to talk to you.