new truck, new suspension plan

[soreyes]

I just got a "new to me" used 97 tacoma ext cab v6 automatic 4wd. This is to replace my 94 4cyl 4wd nissan hardbody. With the auto trans, now my wife will have a much easier time using the truck. The v6 should be better pulling the weight than thrashing that 4cyl.

Last summer, i ran out of patience waiting for a FWC and I bought a Phoenix little chief used from craigslist. It's a heavy beast for a small truck. I believe the tag reads 1300 lbs, but it is very faded and hard to read. That may be the dry weight - i have never weighed it. On the Nissan, i installed ride rite airbags last year and it seemed to handle the weight fairly well. I didn't have too many concerns although my michelin ltx's did look a little mushed.

However, I have started seeing some posts here and there indicating that this is just too much weight for a light truck. Possibly the frame of the tacoma is not beefy enough at the air bag mount location. Having these posts in mind is starting to freak me out, but it would be tough to turn back now that I have the truck and camper.

I gathered from some of the discussions that it could be smart to get a helper leaf to handle some of the weight. The thinking is that the leaf mount points of the frame are stronger than where the airbag mounts. The downside is a rough ride with the camper off. the camper will be on the truck only for trips. 95%+ of the time the truck will just be a regular pickup with a lite aluminum canopy.

I am wondering if a hybrid approach would be wise. A mid weight leaf spring helper rated for 1500 lbs with an airbag in the middle.

I have noticed a few types of helper springs available. Plain, adjustable, and progressive adjustable. Any opinions on what would be best? Maybe a leaf spring helper is not enough? Would an entirely new set of heavier springs be a better choice?

I am not sure if I should go with air rite or firestone bags. Both seem to involve drilling on the tacoma frame . Someone mentioned on a forum that the firestone mount position looked more appropriate in terms of location relative to the axle. I put the air rite bags on the nissan myself and the mounting method left me feeling very skeptical. They did seem to work out for the 1000+ miles of trips we did last year- Maybe I got lucky?

I am not a heavy offroader, but I would hope to take the truck on forest service roads that lead to hiking trailheads and campgrounds. Some of those roads are pretty full of potholes so there would be a lot of bending and twisting. This is a big part of the reason that I went with a pop up slide in rather than a pop up or small hardsided trailer. Maybe my first mistake was falling in love with an idea that is pushing the limits.


here are a couple of pics of the truck on the nissan with the air rite bags:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/soreyes/3741348119/in/set-72157621756083436/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/soreyes/3741361047/in/set-72157621756083436/

 

[oly884]

I just got a "new to me" used 97 tacoma ext cab v6 automatic 4wd. This is to replace my 94 4cyl 4wd nissan hardbody. With the auto trans, now my wife will have a much easier time using the truck. The v6 should be better pulling the weight than thrashing that 4cyl.

Last summer, i ran out of patience waiting for a FWC and I bought a Phoenix little chief used from craigslist. It's a heavy beast for a small truck. I believe the tag reads 1300 lbs, but it is very faded and hard to read. That may be the dry weight - i have never weighed it. On the Nissan, i installed ride rite airbags last year and it seemed to handle the weight fairly well. I didn't have too many concerns although my michelin ltx's did look a little mushed.

However, I have started seeing some posts here and there indicating that this is just too much weight for a light truck. Possibly the frame of the tacoma is not beefy enough at the air bag mount location. Having these posts in mind is starting to freak me out, but it would be tough to turn back now that I have the truck and camper.

I gathered from some of the discussions that it could be smart to get a helper leaf to handle some of the weight. The thinking is that the leaf mount points of the frame are stronger than where the airbag mounts. The downside is a rough ride with the camper off. the camper will be on the truck only for trips. 95%+ of the time the truck will just be a regular pickup with a lite aluminum canopy.

I am wondering if a hybrid approach would be wise. A mid weight leaf spring helper rated for 1500 lbs with an airbag in the middle.

I have noticed a few types of helper springs available. Plain, adjustable, and progressive adjustable. Any opinions on what would be best? Maybe a leaf spring helper is not enough? Would an entirely new set of heavier springs be a better choice?

I am not sure if I should go with air rite or firestone bags. Both seem to involve drilling on the tacoma frame . Someone mentioned on a forum that the firestone mount position looked more appropriate in terms of location relative to the axle. I put the air rite bags on the nissan myself and the mounting method left me feeling very skeptical. They did seem to work out for the 1000+ miles of trips we did last year- Maybe I got lucky?

I am not a heavy offroader, but I would hope to take the truck on forest service roads that lead to hiking trailheads and campgrounds. Some of those roads are pretty full of potholes so there would be a lot of bending and twisting. This is a big part of the reason that I went with a pop up slide in rather than a pop up or small hardsided trailer. Maybe my first mistake was falling in love with an idea that is pushing the limits.


here are a couple of pics of the truck on the nissan with the air rite bags:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/soreyes/3741348119/in/set-72157621756083436/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/soreyes/3741361047/in/set-72157621756083436/


As you can see in my sig I have a 2004 Tacoma and a 2006 Eagle. I previously had the stock suspension with air-lift air bags. It did alright, but loaded down I was near 100 PSI (max rating) of the air bags, and still desired something beefier.

I lifted my truck, and in the process got custom springs made by Alcan: http://www.alcanspring.com/

I told them how much weight I was putting on my truck, and the lift I was going for. After a few emails back and forth about spring rates we settled on a design. A few weeks later I got the springs and I couldn't be happier. I went with about 75% of the load on the springs and 25% of the load is handled by the new airbags (also provided by airlift). It's quite stiff without the camper, but it's the sacrifice I willingly made to have a very nice setup.

You can see my thread I created over on UltimateYota: http://www.ultimateyota.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=6364.0

 

[soreyes]

As you can see in my sig I have a 2004 Tacoma and a 2006 Eagle. I previously had the stock suspension with air-lift air bags. It did alright, but loaded down I was near 100 PSI (max rating) of the air bags, and still desired something beefier.

I lifted my truck, and in the process got custom springs made by Alcan: http://www.alcanspring.com/

I told them how much weight I was putting on my truck, and the lift I was going for. After a few emails back and forth about spring rates we settled on a design. A few weeks later I got the springs and I couldn't be happier. I went with about 75% of the load on the springs and 25% of the load is handled by the new airbags (also provided by airlift). It's quite stiff without the camper, but it's the sacrifice I willingly made to have a very nice setup.

You can see my thread I created over on UltimateYota: http://www.ultimateyota.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=6364.0


thanks for the reply neighbor. Your post is very helpful.

Depending on your options, that eagle could be half the weight of the phoenix.

It sounds like you had just about the same experience as I did with airbags alone. They were at 80 - 100 psi on the nissan. I did nothing to the front of the nissan and it was fairly mushy feeling up there. I think the combo of springs for most if the weight and bags for the rest is a pretty good one. Didn't you love that no turning back feeling of drilling holes in your frame?!?!

 

[oly884]

thanks for the reply neighbor. Your post is very helpful.

Depending on your options, that eagle could be half the weight of the phoenix.

It sounds like you had just about the same experience as I did with airbags alone. They were at 80 - 100 psi on the nissan. I did nothing to the front of the nissan and it was fairly mushy feeling up there. I think the combo of springs for most if the weight and bags for the rest is a pretty good one. Didn't you love that no turning back feeling of drilling holes in your frame?!?!


Oh so much....

I do need to get under there and weld some plates around that area to get the frame a bit stiffer. Since the camper stays on the truck more than off the truck, it'll probably be the best idea in the long run.

My eagle was quite light, I technically got the shell with the furnace, couch, arctic pack, and solar panel so I don't have all that extra cabinets, water, sink, etc.

I'd give alcan a call, they're really helpful people and really make a quality product, I'll buy from them anytime again.

 

[Barko1]

Need to keep a eye on total capacity. I think that has a payload of 1650#, if the camper is 1400 it might help if you were anorexic

 

[soreyes]

...
I do need to get under there and weld some plates around that area to get the frame a bit stiffer. Since the camper stays on the truck more than off the truck, it'll probably be the best idea in the long run.
...


I have seen some other photos of this. Are the metal plates a kit or home fabricated? Would you weld this yourself or have someone weld it for you?

I looked at the weights last night. The sticker says 1299 lbs including propane and 20 gal water (the tank and the water heater tank). So I am definitely going to be slightly over weight.

I will get heavier replacement leaf springs and an airbag system. I might do the inner frame plates in the future if it is a reasonable cost.

I will start thinking about replacing the cabinetry and countertop with something lighter during the off season.

 

[oly884]

I have seen some other photos of this. Are the metal plates a kit or home fabricated? Would you weld this yourself or have someone weld it for you?

I looked at the weights last night. The sticker says 1299 lbs including propane and 20 gal water (the tank and the water heater tank). So I am definitely going to be slightly over weight.

I will get heavier replacement leaf springs and an airbag system. I might do the inner frame plates in the future if it is a reasonable cost.

I will start thinking about replacing the cabinetry and countertop with something lighter during the off season.


My brother is quite the metal fabricator so I'll just hire him to take care of it for me. I'll end up just buying some metal plates and cut them to fit, then have my brother go to town.

 

[Silvertip47]

All the suspension mods in the world will not increase your RAWR.

The first thing to is is find out that rating. Not the one posted on the door but from the manufacturer of the axle. For instance, my F150 has a 9 3/4" rear end that is actually rated at 4500#. Ford rated it at 3900# due to soft springs and P tires and wheels.

So, with an extra rear leaf, airbags and E rated tires and wheels I am under my 4500 but over 3900 and I am comfortable with that.

You also need to weigh the camper loaded and ready to go camping. If it is more than the actual RAWR then you will have problems down the road. You also need to take your stopping capabilities in to account if exceeding the overall GVWR. JMHO Good Luck!!

 

[Bat]

Welding the frame plates sounds good but look into that a bit. It does make the frame stiffer but I would think it would also moves the weak point somewhere else on the frame.

P.S After many sleepless nights I have sold my Ford and moved on to something smaller.