Questions About Places to Avoid and Personal Safety

[steelhead]

I am a newbie to the forum and this is my first post so apologies if it is in the wrong discussion area. Also, I searched for similar topics but could not find any matches so apologies again if these topics have been discussed.

My wife and I are seriously considering joining the off road camping club this spring with the purchase of a Tacoma and a pop up from FWC or ATC. We have been backpacking for 30 years so never think too much about personal safety due to threats from others. Some friends think we are nuts for wanting to camp in places you can drive to because of the meth heads and other flavors of crazies that are out there. We are not gun people and that is not likely to change. So, in order to ease what feels like a growing concern, I thought it might be worth a post to see if there are places that should be avoided and tips for staying safe. We live in Oregon and plan to explore eastern Washington and Oregon, Nevada, the east side of the Sierra in California and the Four Corners.

Last callout is serious thanks to all of you who post here. This site contains a wealth of information for people like us who are just learning about off road camping.

Thanks!

steelhead

 

[MarkBC]

Welcome to WTW...and RELAX!
The cities and towns where people live are much, much, much, much more dangerous than the boonies are -- including the boonies you can drive to. I don't know what your friends concern is based on, but it's not rational...no offense.
I've driven all over southeast Oregon and northwest Nevada for decades and NOT ONCE have I had a scary human encounter.
I don't carry firearms either -- because they're not needed, not needed for protection against humans anyway.
RELAX and have a good time!

And remember: If you've read/heard a news story about "meth-crazed freak kills campers" that means it's a rare event. Rare events -- like school shootings -- are what "news" is based on.

And remember: The most dangerous part of your camping trip is the danger of traffic accident -- the most-likely hazard BY FAR.

 

[highz]

Welcome, steelhead. Mark is right when he says not to not be overly concerned, but considering personal safety is a rational thing to do.

The one bad situation I witnessed was in an established USFS campground, and I was about to press the "911" button on my SPOT when the ranger showed up, and later the sheriff (it was a domestic violence case). I've not yet had any safety concerns when boondocking, myself, but I think it's reasonable to ask about places to avoid. Smokecreek could probably give you the lowdown on the part of California he worked in. Where I live, there are areas near the Mexico border that I would not camp in. I'd be interested if others know about other areas to avoid.

 

[MarkBC]

I still think you'd have to look pretty hard -- or be extremely unlucky -- to find camping area that's more dangerous than a typical town/city.

 

[highz]

I still think you'd have to look pretty hard -- or be extremely unlucky -- to find camping area that's more dangerous than a typical town/city.


I completely agree, and also agree that driving on the road is by far our greatest danger. Still, I think it's good to think about other sources of risk, even if they are unlikely scenarios. It's unlikely I'll be mauled by a bear, but I still carry bear spray...

 

[LuckyDan]

I can't speak to all the places you mentioned but as a person who not only recreates in the hills but works in the brush regularly by myself, the west you seek to wander is a pretty safe place. That said there is a risk just like going to the dark, out of the way ATM alone at night or choosing to party with strangers. There is the rare occasion we work an area that requires a security presence but they are rare and based on an ongoing activity and typically not associated with a specific place. At least in the areas you mention. A little situational awareness goes a long way toward being safe. In short when encountering someone or something if it doesn't look right, smell right or feel right it probably isn't and move on.

Frankly, as you mentioned your in Oregon I have way more "people" issues when business takes me to Portland or Salem than I ever have in the woods.

As for tips, first, you're on the right track with a camper. You can camp about wherever the mood strikes you. This includes down the road a piece away from the kegger in tent spot#14 or the sketchy looking group smoking outside their $100.00 want ad special camp trailer in the rain. Second, is a call to the local USFS or BLM office to an area you may not be familiar with. Along with the good info, if asked they can tell if they are having "problems" in an area, campground or trailhead. You mention backpacking for 30 years so I'm sure you know about the trailhead car prowl syndrome. Third, would be to take the road less traveled. Less travel=less people=less problem As you may have figured the regular group on here are pretty good at that.

Fourth and final. The more independent you can make yourself the better. What I mean by that is a little fore thought in preparation will make you less dependent (and vulnerable)on/to someone else. Having a good jack and shovel to extract,(unstuck)yourself, enough tools to do a simple repair, tire chains during times of snowy weather a good map of where you are going and so on will help to prevent your need to interact with others that may not have your best intentions in mind. Traveling with a group is another approach.

As for prior threads there are a couple from the past of a general safety subject. I'd assume others will post their ideas and may recall those threads I'm thinking of. Silvertip, a frequent contributor had some what I thought was good thoughts on the subject. Maybe he'll write in.

Best wishes, happy travels and welcome.

 

[Ted]

Welcome Steelhead,

Like LuckyDan said, nice choice for a set-up.

I know people that share the same concerns for my wife and I because we prefer to camp in the middle of nowhere. I look at it this way. Is some meth head looking to rip someone off going to hang out in the forest for days or weeks on end hoping some lone campers come by? Or will he be in the cities where he has tens of thousands of potential victims all the time?
We have had our camper nine plus years now, camp once or twice a month year round, been all over the west, and have not had one scary incident in camp. The only sketchy people I can remember have been asking for money at gas stations or parking lots. Not saying it doesn't happen, just agreeing with the others that the chances are higher in populated areas.

So when you get your camper, have fun out there and post trip reports for the rest of us.

Ted

 

[ski3pin]

Welcome Steelhead. Others have already added good information, right in line with what I would say. Check with the local land managers on any current problems, pay attention to your surroundings, always err on the side of caution and you will soon find where we all go to explore is the safest place on earth. You won't want to come back.

 

[Smokecreek1]

I too started as a backpacker-truck camper and as I got older, I switched to a 4x4 with a WTC, so you as a backpacker have to have some common sense or you don't last to long out there; those same principals hold for our type of adventures. We have spent many threads (one recent one was infamous Mark's Unstuck one and I remember some on what to do about bears and rattle snake first aid for some recent examples) on this site talking about what to do and not do out there to keep you alive and well and still have fun. Using a FWC is sort of like bringing an all ready set up tent with a portable fire with you into the woods-instead of a back pack. Many of us combine our old ways and use the FWC as a base camp and explore the wilds from there.

I carry a gun-but I have had one all my life, was in the army and know how to use it-but some, especially city dwellers, don't understand guns-and without some education should probably should think about a dog or a baseball bat instead. I spent most of my working years in the woods with the BLM or college where I couldn't officially carry a gun---so many of us had a dog, in fact some of our managers recommended that we get one-not a killer dog, just a nice lab or herding dog, some type that is friendly but will warn and/or protect you from unusual goings on! Next, you find a place to go like you planned for those great back packing adventures you've had (with plenty of maps, area guides etc-find out background info on places to go-there is plenty of free stuff out there)- ask here or other sites like it for places to go-we love to talk.

Okay, once you decide where to go, get a map, find out who manages it-like the BLM, FS or state, call them to find out what is going on out there-most of the time we "gladly ??" will answer questions about what's out there-common sense. Before you go into unknown territory -stop by any nearby government office and ask. You see a rancher, public employee or hunter while out and about, ask. All you need is to drive into a meth bust or wild horse gathering or a major orv race, maybe lot's of snakes are out this year, that road is out etc.,-things like that sort of messes up a nice trip. Just use your common sense and ask questions before you go and don't worry, just prepare first and just enjoy your adventure!


Smoke

 

[steelhead]

Thanks for all the responses - I really appreciate all the feedback and that no one has run into a difficult situation. Very good suggestions to talk with the land management organizations when going to a new area - we have had some good luck with that when car camping through the years. I also totally agree about cities and getting to the entry points for off road camping being a greater threat. I think we just needed some reassurance that running into nut cases is not a significant concern (especially being unarmed) before committing. It is now checked off the list as resolved.

Also note to ski3pin: we really appreciate your blog and trip reports. They are very well done and are one of our motivators to take up off-road camping because they really illustrate the possibilities. Please keep up the good work.

Thanks again everyone!

 

[Smokecreek1]

You know the more I think about this , having and using a gun, the more I realize that over the years, I depend more and more on not getting into a bad situation in the first place, then if something does happen, on the dog and lastly on my bear spay (or a tree) as my first responses to any unplanned for situation. This doesn't mean I will not still take my gun with me, it's just that in most cases the dog will let me know what is happening and the bear spray is there ready to use right there on my vest and it doesn't freak out other people i happen to meet on the trail like my 357 hanging on my hip! I remember seeing an ad once on drawing a pistol and trying to hit a charging bear and then it compared that to using bear spay. Then again all those jokes about grizzer scat full of berries and pepper. It works on people anyway, any thoughts for the rest of my fellow FWCers on that! This isn't a hijack of this thread is it-or just more thoughts on a very pertinent and important subject?

Smoke

 

[Dughlas Stiubhart]

Welcome, steelhead.

Where I live, there are areas near the Mexico border that I would not camp in.


Although the illegal traffic across the US-Mex boarder has decreased a lot because of the Great Recession in Gringo Land, some of the most remote areas down there are still considered dangerous. The BLM and Forest Service have many big signs along remote, mountain roads warning about smuggling and illegal immigration ahead. That said, I have still camped in some of these areas in NM and AZ with no problem.

 

[ski3pin]

<snip>
Also note to ski3pin: we really appreciate your blog and trip reports. They are very well done and are one of our motivators to take up off-road camping because they really illustrate the possibilities. Please keep up the good work.

Thanks again everyone!


Thank you for your very kind comment.

 

[highz]

Although the illegal traffic across the US-Mex boarder has decreased a lot because of the Great Recession in Gringo Land, some of the most remote areas down there are still considered dangerous. The BLM and Forest Service have many big signs along remote, mountain roads warning about smuggling and illegal immigration ahead. That said, I have still camped in some of these areas in NM and AZ with no problem.


As you and others say, getting info from the land managers helps in choosing places to go or avoid. Smuggling corridors change often, of course, and those are what I most want to avoid, so current info is needed.

When we were on Otero Mesa recently I was stopped and questioned by a Border Patrol officer. I wasn't overly worried about illegal activities there mainly because I was camping with a large group. I might have slept lighter if I was alone. I saw no evidence of illegal traffic, though, and it is entirely possible the Border Patrol was out there because a local rancher saw our group and called them - don't really know.

 

[Foy]

I'll second or third (fourth, fifth?) the "never had a problem" and I'll apply that to Montana, Idaho, Utah, and Colorado, where the majority of my regular but infrequent WTW-ing has been over the last 35 years. I own firearms of several varieties and I hunt a little. I've never felt the need or the desire to haul weapons across the country from my North Carolina home to the West, as much for not wanting to have one more thing to look after or protect from loss or damage as for any other reason.

I tend to believe bad guys are inherently lazy and not many will spend the time and fuel money to get to places I like to go.

I'll say one thing hopefully without creating the impression that I'm bigoted or biased, but the only times I've felt as though I didn't want to camp nearby has been on and near reservation land in Montana, South Dakota, and Wyoming. On more than one occasion I've been passing through and have had hateful glares directed at self, wife, kids, or other adult travel companions while in towns like Crow Agency, Hardin, and Lame Deer, MT, Interior, SD and a small group of other SD and WY communities . The expressions of unwelcomeness combined with the awful living conditions observed have had me "hammer down" headed out of town a number of times.

Foy

 

[craig333]

Lots of good advice here. I have decided to camp elsewhere when I thought something might be sketchy. Was it? Probably not I just prefer to err on the side of caution. Great thing about our campers is our ability to "bug out" in a hurry if necessary. I do miss having a dog around camp, even though in his later years he wasn't much of a watch dog.

Situational awareness is great, so is not looking like an easy mark. Can't do much about looking like a tourist most of the time, I mean we are but you can try and have that sense about you that "I'm not an easy mark". Theres a word for that, can't think of it at the moment.

 

[Overland Hadley]

I will echo what Craig said. Listen to your gut feeling. With your backpacking experience you should have a sense of what feels right and when it is time to move on.

Are there crazy (and sometimes dangerous) people out in the woods, yes, just the same as in the city. But it is not a reason to stay at home in fear.

I am also not a gun person, but I do carry a couple things that I feel I am competent at using to deter somebody if needed. One of these items is bear spray.

I will second what Foy said about feeling uncomfortable and unwelcome on Reservation land. I find this somewhat understandable given the history.

 

[MarkBC]

...This doesn't mean I will not still take my gun with me, it's just that in most cases the dog will let me know what is happening and the bear spray is there ready to use right there on my vest and it doesn't freak out other people i happen to meet on the trail like my 357 hanging on my hip!...

Hmmm....reminds me of a western outback camping episode that I experienced maybe 15 - 20 years ago. My brother and I were camped at Black Rock Springs (at Black Rock Point, Black Rock Desert).
It was afternoon, and a guy drove over from somewhere and came over to where we were camped. He had a revolver in a holster on his hip -- he kinda looked like a cowboy from a movie, as I recall, except that he was real (though not a buckaroo). We chatted for a while about the usual stuff that strangers chat about when meeting "out there"...seems like he was a more-or-less local.
Then he moved on.
After he left my brother said, "I was watching him -- trying to decided what I'd do if he made a move."
"Huh? Made a move?"

"With the gun."
"Really? Why? I wasn't worried."

And the fact that nothing happened proved that I was right to not worry...preserving my record of never having a "scary human encounter".

I don't think the pistol-packin-pardner was Smokecreek...though we were in his neck of the woods.

 

[Smokecreek1]

Hmmm....reminds me of a western outback camping episode that I experienced maybe 15 - 20 years ago. My brother and I were camped at Black Rock Springs (at Black Rock Point, Black Rock Desert).
It was afternoon, and a guy drove over from somewhere and came over to where we were camped. He had a revolver in a holster on his hip -- he kinda looked like a cowboy from a movie, as I recall, except that he was real (though not a buckaroo). We chatted for a while about the usual stuff that strangers chat about when meeting "out there"...seems like he was a more-or-less local.
Then he moved on.
After he left my brother said, "I was watching him -- trying to decided what I'd do if he made a move."
"Huh? Made a move?"

"With the gun."
"Really? Why? I wasn't worried."

And the fact that nothing happened proved that I was right to not worry...preserving my record of never having a "scary human encounter".

I don't think the pistol-packin-pardner was Smokecreek...though we were in his neck of the woods.

20 years ago it might have been me packing one on my hip, but even back then, I usually, especially while working ,didn't have one. But you would have seen a large white husky-german shepard mix named "Wolfer" for sure. Again, some say, why have one if it's not ready to use. To me, I'd rather have the dang thing, just in case --and never use it! I think I said my reasons above : the dog and the bear spray are what you see, the gun is in the truck or may be in the pack when I'm hiking or fishing for that unknown emergency? What emergency-I spent to many years out in the back country with my LE Rangers looking for the bad guys and the bad things they do-but that was part of the job. If you are smart and try to follow the rules we have been talking about here , you can avoid most of the bad situations out there-think and prepare. By the way it's okay in Ca to carry a loaded gun in your pack when your fishing or hunting with a long gun-one of the quirks of the law. When I was younger it felt sort of neat to carry a pistol on my hip, but these days I'm older and wiser and besides the damn thing weighs to much and stays in the truck unless I'm planning a long day hike in the back country, there is a reason to carry it, or i plan an over night fishing trip!
anyway, each to his own, the object is to have fun, not look for a problem!

Smoke

 

[Foy]

MarkBC,

Your brother's wariness reminds me of my son's recent military training. While "in country" in Afghanistan, the Seabees are trained to "be welcoming and friendly to everyone you meet, but have a plan on how you will kill them if they turn on you".

Foy