Questions for Ben & Marty

[WarpathEngineering]

Ben & Marty,

Thanks for all the advice you've passed on to all of us, I'm sure everyone would agree, it has been very helpful!

In one of the previous posts we were talking about camper heights (Ford Super Duties vs other trucks) and it got me thinking of cutting my camper down to were it should be for my truck. Since I already have half of the interior removed, I got looking at the framework from the inside and I can see where FWC had added the additional height over the window. So my questions are:

Is there a reason why the tubing used for the framework is only welded on the outside? Is this to allow for flex or simply a time/money saving thing?

Is the siding installed with staples, screws, adhesive, or a combination?

If I cut the top down the height of the spacers, 3.25" which will give me 4" above the cab, I'll need to replace the section of siding just below the belt line. I've been looking for siding on the web and it appears that there are several types out there. Do you know what style FWC used? Could you suggest a supplier?

If the siding where to give me a problem and I found it worth my while to re-side the camper, would installing sheet aluminum like the newer style RV's are using cause a problem in your opinion? This would naturally be welded from the inside to the framework.

I'd also have to cut down my door or find a replacement. Would it be best to go back to FWC for a replacement door or do you know if I could go straight to the manufacturer? Who is the manufacturer?

While I'm in to it, are there any aspects of the framework that you feel needs to be improved upon? Reinforcement?

Where can I come up with replacement head liner material? Mine is in a bad way.

Although I do not think that "chopping the top" on the camper would be very difficult, (I've done it before on cars) there is another option. That would be adding depth to the overhang and increasing the room for a thicker mattress.
Would you find anything structrually wrong with adding to the depth of the overhang? The structure of the overhang apears to be nothing more than a 6" C-channel with a returned edge on the top. It runs from the rear wall of the camper around the front and I assume to the other rear wall forming a "belt". I am thinking of welding a like member to the underneath of this belt starting at the front camper wall around the front and back to the front camper wall on the other side. Then cutting down the front camper wall the install the overhang floor panel thus lowering the bedding area in the process. This would allow me to add almost 4" in depth to the bedding area. This would add greatly to the comfort of my wife, be the most cost effective, less time consuming change.

It will not however fully satisfy the real reason for taking the knife to the camper, lowering wind resistance. When driving my camper on the expressway you can feel the wind buffeting under the overhang. In the earlier post I mentioned to Ted about adding a faring under the overhang to help re-distribute the wind but since I have the camper apart, now seems to be the perfect time to make a change. Lowering the overhang to where it would have been for my truck not only adds a better visual picture but will help with the wind.

I know that this may sound like a lot of work but, like any man, I need a project to think about. Besides, I got a good deal on this camper and even with the changes, the cost still would not come close to the cost of a new one. May be some day!

 

[benburnett]

chopping up camper

The tubing is welded on one side only to allow the frame to flex with your truck. If you weld it on both sides you will be snapping welds left and right.

The siding is stapled into place on the outside with screws in the ends that hold the trim work on. You will also find rivets on the trim pieces that hold the vinyl insert into place over the screws.

We purchase the siding from Elixir industries. If you need to replace pieces of it though, it would probably be easier just to call FWC and have them send you out what you need.

To reside the camper and weld sheet siding in place, I am not sure how well that would work. I have seen these campers flex enough on a truck to see a ripple all the way down the wall of the camper. How welding would hold up to a solid sheet trying to do that is a guess at best.

Actually if you take the siding off and then reuse it, you should not have to buy any at all. In removing the siding, start from the bottom up. Take off all the trim pieces and you will see that you just have to work the staples out at the top of each piece to remove it. If you cut the camper down, then just replace the siding from the top down and when you get to the bottom, trim off the excess.

The door is not a problem. They come in 2" increments. Just keep that in mind in ordering a new one and how large to make your door opening. FWC can get you one or we can order one for you and have it shipped direct to you. We did that for one customer who was fixing an older FWC already.

As far as I know you have to be either a dealer or manufacturer to buy the doors direct.

If you feel the need to reinforce the frame, the only spot that I would suggest is around the door frame. We have changed the framing around the door from 1" tubing to 2" tubing. I am not sure if that change was already in place when your camper was built. That was really the only weak spot that I encountered over my years at FWC and that was only on the older campers with the 1" tubing for the whole door frame.

Head liner material can be purchased from FWC or us. We are currently using a one piece material that is white with a pattern to it. I can send you a sample of it if you would like to take a look at it. Just let me know. Or just send you a picture of a roof with it installed. Either way is not a problem.

The older material that we used to use was actually old car head liner material. We would have to put two pieces to cover the roof with the seam hidden under the center piece of wood strap on the inside.

Seems like your idea for lowering the bed depth would be the easiest way to go. Then go with some type of air dam up front to cut down on the drag that you will have. Should be no problem with doing it the way that you describe.

I also think that the comfort of your wife would be the most important factor of what you end up doing to the camper.

Well I think that should about cover your questions. Feel free to give us call anytime at 800-446-1003 also if some of this doesn't make any sense. We are always happy to help out if we can.

Sincerely,

Ben
www.allterraincampers.com

 

[marty]

your camper

so if you found a 1 by 4 aluminum chanel you could put a false floor under your upper bed and put an access door in the bed board for storage. maby put a brace in the front wall to help out with the atachment of it. with what you are doing you should confer with jeff. ben , don and myself are very good with these campers, but jeff is the camper guru by a long shot. i found a shop that makes aluminum storage sheds. this guy can make skin strips to almost any size. maby you could find a shop like that in your aera. sounds like you may need a new nose skin. ben pretty much covered everything else i would be happy to pm you jeffs phone number if you need.
marty

 

[DesertDon]

I found that using a Thermarest air mattress solves the hard bed problems. It stores very flat. It is the same mattress I have used for 25+ yrs.

The space between the roof of the PU and the overhang can be used for additional storage with a custom box. I carry a ladder to help in loading and removing a canoe from the roof rack.

Extended cab PUs have a large, thin, unsupported piece of sheet metal. I think that something that would reduce the deflection of the roof metal would be worth a try before chopping the camper.

I suspect the ceiling material in the camper can be found at an auto upolostery shop.

 

[WarpathEngineering]

Thanks for the replies guys!

Homeade these are for you: The wall box tubbing doesn't have a very thick wall. A lot thinner than I expected. I'd say somewhere thinner than 1/16" probably .049. Ben, Marty or Jeff could tell you what they are using. I don't have the headliner out yet and probably won't for a while....one step at a time. The staples are the pneumatic narrow crown type about 3/4" long. The C-channel is also thin, probably the same .049 wall as the box. This suprised me too but then I have a nasty tendency to over engineer everything. If I where designing this camper, they'd have to lift it with a backhoe. Thanks for the line on the other items. I've looked at interstate metal and a few others.

DesertDon: Thanks for the line on the air mattress. The few times I've used an air mattress, I can't say I was pleased but then again, I wasn't buying a quality one. My wife and I went camping over the summer and used a truck tent. I was able to put an old bedroom mattress I had lying around in the back of the truck and since this was my wife's first experience "camping" she loved it thus prompting the purchase of the camper. Although the extra storage would be nice, I think I'd use it for a thicker foam mattress. I'm still inclined to drop the whole top. In the long run, I think it would be easier.

Ben & Marty: Thanks for the answers. The problem with reusing the siding is the holes already cut into them. If I were shortening the camper at the bottom of the aluminum framed wall that would work, but since I'm taking the height out of the middle (above the window but below the belt) as I go to reapply the siding the window hole would be moved down. If memory serves, there are 4 sections of siding on the sides. The bottom, which comes up to the bottom of the window, the section beside the window, the section above the window, and the top section that covers the belt. In order to make my cut from above the window, I'd need to shorten that piece of sideing leaving me without a locking edge. That would be the piece that I'd need. It might do me good to get that piece first to make sure I'm not taking out too much wall, but from your previous responses, 3.25" would put me right at the correct height for a Grandby for a 98 GMC. On the other side of the camper, the only penetration in that section is the vent for the fridge which can be easily lowered. Everything else is below the cutting line. As to the framing around the door, there are 3 1" x 2" pieces of box tubbing stacked one on top of the other being used as a type of header to the left and right of the door. The vertical framing around the door is still 1" box. Is this what you were explaining? In any case, I'd keep the 1 x 2 tubbing and take the cuts out of the vertical 1 x 1 tubing.

Thanks again! Rick

 

[benburnett]

cutting camper

Sounds like you are right about the siding. But if your going to take the height out from above the window, trim the top piece of siding from the top of it. This will still leave the locking edgle in place an the rest of the pieces will fit into place.

I don't remember the wall thickness of the tubing or channel. The channel is a little thicker than the walls though.

Sincerely,

Ben
www.allterraincampers.com

 

[WarpathEngineering]

Homeade,

It sounds to me that you need to take a few TIG classes. Welding aluminum would be a cinch then. Good luck!

Rick

 

[marty]

siding

Rick,

Four wheel should sell and ship siding to you and if not we will be happy to do so. Our siding is probably not the same width as theirs however it will work for you. We were not sure how to help you here. I believe you can have it made locally in a sheet metal shop and not have all that shipping cost. The lock on it is called a Pittsburgh. Marty