Rain and camper

BenG

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2007
Messages
148
Location
wa state
Ok is it normal on the pop up campers to get some moisture inside the canvas when traveling down the road in the rain? :confused: this is first rain storm I had mine in so when I got home tonight I pulled it into shop and raised top to check for leaks, saw that both front corners where wet on iside not soaking wet but enough that you could see it on material. and it wasnt wet enough to run into camper just the canvas inside corners.
 
its a 85 keystone
 

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roof leak

First of all, great looking rig. Now to the moisture that you found.

In that year of camper there is no vapor barrier in the roof. In turn condensation tends to build up in the aluminum tubes of the roof easier than with todays campers. The outside tube that is in your roof runs all the way down the length of the roof and is bent to make the front corner and then the two tubes meet and are welded in the middle of the front. These tubes have a number of cuts in the corner so that they will make the radius bend to create the front corner.

In changing weather conditions such as the rain that you drove through, the condensation builds in the tube and tends to run down it and through these cuts in the tube to show up in the front corners like you describe. It took us awhile to figure out this problem since it is not something that happens all the time.

The only way to really fix it is to drill a vent hole through the side of the tube back about 10" from the corner on each side. Then we squirt an expanding foam into the tube toward the front. The trick here is not to put too much in or it will come out the cuts and make a mess inside the camper. Just enough foam to expand and plug the tube. In turn the condensation will dissipate over time through the vent holes. There is a little vent hole cover that we still have that goes over the hole so that rain doesn't get into it.

This will block it from getting to the front corners and creating the moisture that you describe.
 
BenG,

My old Keystone has the same problem. I just ignore it. Raise the top occasionally, shift the cushon up so it can dry. I was very interested in Ben's explaination because I would never have figured that out.

BenG, I don't know how long you have been messing with RVs. I have owned different ones for a long time. I have never seen one that does not leak. I always pose this question to RV salesmen; "I know this damn RV you are selling leaks. The question is not whether it leaks but ... How much?" The salesmen always laugh and they are more relaxed when they can tell me the truth and don't have to lie. The reason an RV cannot be made leak proof is because they twist and work while under way. This loosens fasteners and opens small joints and cracks where water can come in. A house or building sits still, so it is easier to make them leak proof. You can make an RV leak proof if it is never moved, but once you drive it cross country or over the White Rim Road, it will leak. When we were in Alaska on this last trip, we camped in a heavy all night rain in Wrangell. It rained about 12 hours like you never see it rain in the southwest. Our Keystone had water in the corners just like you describe. It dried out after a few days. Never gave it much thought because I expected it.

Because RVs leak, they must be stored under cover. The greatest damage to RVs from water usually occurs when they are in long term storage. When you are using the RV, you will notice leaks and dry them out. However, when the RV sits without attention, the moisture inside causes mildew, delaminates plywood, and ruins particle board. It does not take long for irreversable damage to occur. If you don't have a building or shed for your RV, at least cover it with a sheet of visqueen and check it often. Keep the air flowing through it. In addition, if your are able to store your RV under cover, it should have a heavy custom canvas dust cover over it as well. RVs stored this way are the one that really last.
 
A couple weeks ago Edna and I drove about six hours from Brownsville to Houston in torrential rain.

When I popped up the camper at home, I noticed more than mere condensation. It turns out that rain water had been driven up under the drip edge of the roof, down the canvas and through the Velcro(tm) of the window coverings.

I don't consider it a significant problem-- yet.
 
BenG,

My old Keystone has the same problem. I just ignore it. Raise the top occasionally, shift the cushon up so it can dry. I was very interested in Ben's explaination because I would never have figured that out.

BenG, I don't know how long you have been messing with RVs. I have owned different ones for a long time. I have never seen one that does not leak. I always pose this question to RV salesmen; "I know this damn RV you are selling leaks. The question is not whether it leaks but ... How much?" The salesmen always laugh and they are more relaxed when they can tell me the truth and don't have to lie. The reason an RV cannot be made leak proof is because they twist and work while under way. This loosens fasteners and opens small joints and cracks where water can come in. A house or building sits still, so it is easier to make them leak proof. You can make an RV leak proof if it is never moved, but once you drive it cross country or over the White Rim Road, it will leak. When we were in Alaska on this last trip, we camped in a heavy all night rain in Wrangell. It rained about 12 hours like you never see it rain in the southwest. Our Keystone had water in the corners just like you describe. It dried out after a few days. Never gave it much thought because I expected it.

Because RVs leak, they must be stored under cover. The greatest damage to RVs from water usually occurs when they are in long term storage. When you are using the RV, you will notice leaks and dry them out. However, when the RV sits without attention, the moisture inside causes mildew, delaminates plywood, and ruins particle board. It does not take long for irreversable damage to occur. If you don't have a building or shed for your RV, at least cover it with a sheet of visqueen and check it often. Keep the air flowing through it. In addition, if your are able to store your RV under cover, it should have a heavy custom canvas dust cover over it as well. RVs stored this way are the one that really last.

well put john. i have been in some torrential rains in my 93' ranger II and luckily have very limited leakage...but i agree, dry them out after every use and store them properly!
 
rain

Mark,

I noticed that you have a 2001 hawk model. First question that I would have is on the clear cover inside. When you close it are you sure to pull up and out on the corners so that you end up with a good seal all the way around it. I have seen a lot of people that don't get a good seal on the clear cover and this allows some seepage when they don't. The most common is to just put the clear cover up and miss a small gap on the bottom in the corners that appears if you don't pull them up enough.

Not trying to say that you didn't close it up right. Some folks have never had this explained to them before. I have driven though some rough rains and never had a camper leak like that so I curious as to the cause so that if something needs to be changed we can make the change to prevent it.
 
That has been my first step, Ben, to make sure I seal the Velcro correctly.

I also noticed last night that most of the screws on the roof had loosened, some sticking proud of the sheet metal by more than a quarter inch. I tightened them back down, of course, but am pondering other steps there as well.
 
That has been my first step, Ben, to make sure I seal the Velcro correctly.

I also noticed last night that most of the screws on the roof had loosened, some sticking proud of the sheet metal by more than a quarter inch. I tightened them back down, of course, but am pondering other steps there as well.

mark i noticed some loose screws on the roof as well a while back when i installed my roof rack...tightened them up with no problems. we had some serious moisture last night, see "2 weeks in camper" thread, and with 2 dogs and 2 people on the camper we were warm and dry...i have the clear window covers and they appear to have shrunk slightly over the years. like ben said, we just make extra sure to button up everything before we travel...cheers, and i like this thread...staying dry is key! we need to start a new one on how to dry gear in the camper when its wet outside!
 
Great information guys, thanks for posting. We haven't had much weather on the camper yet so it hasn't really been tested for leakage. Nice to know that if it occurs it isn't that unusual.
 
Loose Screws

I also found a few loose screws on the top (and 1 behind the steering wheel), so I put a drop of silicon under each that was visibly raised and checked all of them on the top. Found maybe 10% that needed to be snugged. Not much torque, just enough - I was afraid of stripping the aluminum, or what ever they're screwed into.

As for wet gear... I live in So. Cal. where the average rain fall is 16"/year. Last year we got a little over 8. Today we had our first rain; it lasted about 15 minutes (just long enough to get rain in my face when I went out to roll up my car windows). The local TV news cast started "Storm Watch 2007" and at the end of the weather segment, the cute female anchor asked the weatherman "When will it end?" ;)

But seriously, that is a good topic for a new thread. FWIW, I carry a stuff sack with 3-4 towels, mostly for drying off the dogs after going to a lake or river, or for doing a little cleaning while in camp.
 
Thanks for all the input on this guys, glad to know that Im not the only one getting some moisture into camper, didnt take nothing for it to dry out, left camper in shop for day, top up and all dry:) it never even got any moisture under the top bunk area just the little on front sides of inside canvas, actully think it got forced in when driving thru rain and it made it under top when it was down. Be giving the camper another test this weekend as we are taking it back out again for weekend get away to Colville national forest area, see what the weather holds in stock.....was 31 this morning when I got up, so may get to see how well furnace keeps it warm on inside.
 
I also found a few loose screws on the top (and 1 behind the steering wheel), so I put a drop of silicon under each ...

Erm, so how's that silicone workin' out for you, bro'? Does it stick to your shorts or anything?

:eek:
 
I no longer need a belt

Erm, so how's that silicone workin' out for you, bro'? Does it stick to your shorts or anything?

:eek:

It's great, I don't need a belt anymore. My pants just stick where I leave them.:cool:
 
Rain in camper

The older models had some condensation problems and you would get that moisture in the front corners due to the tubes not being plugged. Some of the older campers would condensate heavily because there is no vapor barrier in the roof. I have to disagree with John though that all campers leak.

After about 1998 we fixed those problems. I ran a camper on my truck for over 3 years full time. For about a year and a half of that I was out almost every weekend at the ocean going through dive training. I have driven in huge rain storms, been camping in down falls, driven with the top up at 80 mph and never had a leak in the camper. The way that FWC and ATC build the campers today, you should not have leaks in your campers. If you do there is a reason for it and it can be fixed.

Roof screws loosening up. I have noticed that this seems to happen on some of the campers and one fix for it is to actually cover the screw with a blob of silicone. This used to be done on the older campers and I never heard of the screws coming loose on these models. We quit doing this in the 90's because of how it looked over the years. Sounds like it is something that needs to be brought back to prevent the problem.
 
The older models had some condensation problems and you would get that moisture in the front corners due to the tubes not being plugged. Some of the older campers would condensate heavily because there is no vapor barrier in the roof. I have to disagree with John though that all campers leak.

After about 1998 we fixed those problems. I ran a camper on my truck for over 3 years full time. For about a year and a half of that I was out almost every weekend at the ocean going through dive training. I have driven in huge rain storms, been camping in down falls, driven with the top up at 80 mph and never had a leak in the camper. The way that FWC and ATC build the campers today, you should not have leaks in your campers. If you do there is a reason for it and it can be fixed.

Roof screws loosening up. I have noticed that this seems to happen on some of the campers and one fix for it is to actually cover the screw with a blob of silicone. This used to be done on the older campers and I never heard of the screws coming loose on these models. We quit doing this in the 90's because of how it looked over the years. Sounds like it is something that needs to be brought back to prevent the problem.

every camper i have ever had has leaked...even my FWC (just a little). i would love to get a brand new fwc or atc and not have it leak at all...not even one drop...ohhhhh, we can all dream :D !
 
This is a little off topic ... however when you are refastening anything on the out side of the camper I highly recomend you use 3M's 4200 sealent over any type of silicone. Much better adhesion and seal. I had a Marine Maint. buisness for a number of years and after trying many different products I found 3M's 4200 and 5200 worked the best.

Marc
 
3m 5200.....

I can speak to Marc's post on these sealants. I was told that 3m 5200 was used when they build floats for airplanes so when I built my first 2 sets of motorcycle panniers I used it in conjunction with aircraft rivets to attach the aluminum plate to the AL angle material where the plates met, corners and all edges...this was before I learned to TIG weld. I still have a pair of the bags and they are installed on my current sidecar rig. Nary a leak or problem in 15 years of use in very wet and dusty/muddy conditions. They have seen very rugged use in Alaska and all over the US and Canada. The several sets I made since, I TIG welded a heavier plate and they are of course nearly indestructable.

Edohart, if that silicone wears out, this stuff will guarantee you will never need a belt!;)
Brian
 
sealant

Marc,

Thanks for posting that. I was trying to find my notes on that because I remember you telling me about it and I must have put them in a really safe place.:)
 

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