Scary moment on a casual inspection

[srileo]

All,
just an exhortation to all of you to check your turnbuckles more often.

I nearly got a heart-attack when i was doing a casual inspection yesterday on the back of my Hawk and found the left rear turnbuckle missing! I quicly clambered inside and checked that the turnbuckle was actually lying on the bed. 2 other turnbuckles were loose and the last one had also fallen out of the hook, and was lying on the truck bed. The camper itself has shifted about an inch more to one side of the truck. I could not detect any difference in handling. No scratches or anything else. I have stock springs and air bags on my Nissan Titan.

Needless to say, it was a close call. I live in san Francisco and i had just driven my truck up a 20 degree incline of a hill. The thought of my new camper sliding off the truck on a crowded street was enough to make my stomach turn.

What happened? I am not very sure, but 2 incidents come to mind.
1) The last time i took the camper out a month ago, i went over a bump at speed a bit uncomfortably fast. Everything seemed ok and i continued on my way without any inspection though.
2) To park my truck in the side-yard, i have to gently jump a 6" curb. I did this twice at very very low speed with a couple of wood blocks underneath to ease up the incline. I took lots of care, but i can imagine the bed might flex a wee bit.

So, all in all, as things stand, the camper is now back on tight with no damage to threads of the turnbuckles - which leads me to think that the open hooks on the turnbuckles are not ideal, and its better to get a closed hoop so the hooks dont jump off!

Can anyone tell me if its ok for the camper to be off center at the back by an inch or so? Its now nicely bolted tight and in my recent trip, i didnt detect any handling difference or the turnbuckles loosening again.

shridhar

 

[craig333]

Mines been off center most of its life with no issues. I finally got it centered this time just because.

 

[DonC]

In 3 years I have had two turnbuckle issues. I always check to make sure everything is good before leaving home, and before returning home.

My first problem was at the end of a trip to Death Valley. I forget which corner it was, but I found a turnbuckle on the bed of the truck and I discovered the attachment point at the camper was missing. Took it in for repair when I got home.

This summer I was returning from the Alabama Hills. Left rear turnbuckle was missing and the bolt in the bed of the truck was gone. I replaced the eye bolt in the truck bed and got a new turnbuckle when I got home. I took the camper off about a month later and found the turnbuckle and the eye bolt which had simply snapped.

Both times I drove home with 3 turnbuckles. I now carry an spare turnbuckle, eye bolt and bed plate/washers. Now I can repair everything unless I shear another off at the camper - can't fix that in the field.

 

[srileo]

DonC,
you are a braver man than i am. Am surprised I think i'm gonna buy a spare turnbuckle and eye bolts.


Craig333,
glad to hear that being off-center a wee bit is ok. I have a rubber mat beneath the camper so that might have helped a bit with moving around or atleast preventing damage from scraping underneath.

In 3 years I have had two turnbuckle issues. I always check to make sure everything is good before leaving home, and before returning home.

My first problem was at the end of a trip to Death Valley. I forget which corner it was, but I found a turnbuckle on the bed of the truck and I discovered the attachment point at the camper was missing. Took it in for repair when I got home.

This summer I was returning from the Alabama Hills. Left rear turnbuckle was missing and the bolt in the bed of the truck was gone. I replaced the eye bolt in the truck bed and got a new turnbuckle when I got home. I took the camper off about a month later and found the turnbuckle and the eye bolt which had simply snapped.

Both times I drove home with 3 turnbuckles. I now carry an spare turnbuckle, eye bolt and bed plate/washers. Now I can repair everything unless I shear another off at the camper - can't fix that in the field.

 

[DonC]

DonC,
you are a braver man than i am. Am surprised I think i'm gonna buy a spare turnbuckle and eye bolts.

not so... you either drive home with 3 turnbuckles, or hitch hike to the nearest town, order the replacement parts, wait, hitch hike back to your truck, repair, and then drive home! Now if both front turnbuckles were missing, I just might do that - I've seen a picture of a camper that lifted off the truck.

 

[iowahiker]

You may have the same issue I had, http://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/topic/9608-wheel-well-shims/

My opinion is the turnbuckle angles are not effective side-to-side (it is a small space) and so the camper walks around and loosens the turnbuckles. I slipped in a correctly wide shim (1x6" for my Ford) at the wheel well which did not fit in the remaining space after a shift and let the "walk" move the camper back and until the 1x6 shim fell into place. I set the opposing shim in to keep the walk from going to far the other way. After the camper was centered, I slipped an extra 1/4" lath to remove almost all the wheel well space. The shims are not attached to anything and are put in after the camper is on the truck via the rear turnbuckle doors. The 1x6" is a little over a foot long. I still check my turnbuckles on a regular basis but at least the camper does not move around. My truck bed is only metal while campers can also be on bed liners, mats, composite truck beds, or other non-skid surface and have very different results compared to my slick bed.

Given how much your camper has moved, be sure to check for any space between the camper front bump stops and the front of the truck bed with a good flashlight. Shine the flashlight above the bump stops and the bed contact point and look for any light passing through. Taking measurements when you are sure the camper is all the way forward allows for a quick check for camper movement. My camper overhangs my truck bed by 3 3/8" at the back so a quick measurement gives me some confidence the camper is touching the front of the truck bed.

Turnbuckles have interesting geometry. In theory, only the front turnbuckles "hold the camper on the truck" since the rear turnbuckles point backwards. If a front turnbuckle breaks or falls off then move a rear one to the front. If the camper rear is shimmed at the wheel wheels (so it can not move side-to-side), then you can limp out/home.

 

[JHanson]

I replaced the open-hook, aluminum-bodied turnbuckles that came on our camper with forged steel versions and closed threaded links to connect them. They might come loose but they won't come off. So far, with blue Loctite, they seem to be holding fine.

 

[Ambling1]

Shridhar I also have a Titan with stock springs and air bags that carry the All Terrain Ocelot. On my first trip with the camper, after driving a washboard road, my turn buckles were very loose and one was swinging. My solution was to reinforce the truck bed eye bolts, shim between the wheel wells, and use Loctite on the turn buckles.

 

[Beach]

As long as we're on this subject, has anyone here broken a turnbuckle? I bought my Hawk used and the turnbuckles it came with are aluminum body and rated to 360lbs each. I asked FWC about it and was told they would be fine, I would have to ck their reply, but I think the ones they use are rated the same. I believe 360 lbs is ok, but think heavier would be better in the event of an accident or a big hit off road.

 

[CALIcamperdad]

All,
just an exhortation to all of you to check your turnbuckles more often.

I nearly got a heart-attack when i was doing a casual inspection yesterday on the back of my Hawk and found the left rear turnbuckle missing! I quicly clambered inside and checked that the turnbuckle was actually lying on the bed. 2 other turnbuckles were loose and the last one had also fallen out of the hook, and was lying on the truck bed. The camper itself has shifted about an inch more to one side of the truck. I could not detect any difference in handling. No scratches or anything else. I have stock springs and air bags on my Nissan Titan.

Needless to say, it was a close call. I live in san Francisco and i had just driven my truck up a 20 degree incline of a hill. The thought of my new camper sliding off the truck on a crowded street was enough to make my stomach turn.

What happened? I am not very sure, but 2 incidents come to mind.
1) The last time i took the camper out a month ago, i went over a bump at speed a bit uncomfortably fast. Everything seemed ok and i continued on my way without any inspection though.
2) To park my truck in the side-yard, i have to gently jump a 6" curb. I did this twice at very very low speed with a couple of wood blocks underneath to ease up the incline. I took lots of care, but i can imagine the bed might flex a wee bit.

So, all in all, as things stand, the camper is now back on tight with no damage to threads of the turnbuckles - which leads me to think that the open hooks on the turnbuckles are not ideal, and its better to get a closed hoop so the hooks dont jump off!

Can anyone tell me if its ok for the camper to be off center at the back by an inch or so? Its now nicely bolted tight and in my recent trip, i didnt detect any handling difference or the turnbuckles loosening again.

shridhar

I've always wondered about the chain / Metal turn buckle set up. They don't have much in the way of stretch factor so it doesn't take much for them to work loose to the point of dropping out of an eye bolt. Also seems like a locking hook through the eye bolts would add a level of security given even if they worked loose they would remain hooked to the eye bolts?

I race sailboats in SF Bay seems like some of the high tech line we use for very very very high load applications on the boats would provide an alternative option to the old turn buckle idea?

 

[DonC]

They don't have much in the way of stretch factor

This is a great point that I had not considered before. It is a very ridged connection that must be very stressful on the camper and truck connections on rough washboard roads. Although I have not had a turnbuckle break, as I mention up thread, I have had both a camper and truck/eyebolt connection break.

 

[Captm]

Turnbuckles are a great tool, although IMHO, the ones used presently were not designed for such use.
Cheers

 

[CALIcamperdad]

This is a great point that I had not considered before. It is a very ridged connection that must be very stressful on the camper and truck connections on rough washboard roads. Although I have not had a turnbuckle break, as I mention up thread, I have had both a camper and truck/eyebolt connection break.

Yes would seem that having some stretch factor to allow for the flexing and impact loading would help reduce the chances of breaking something and better chance that it would stay tight too. With a non stretchy turn buckle set up the shock loads get carried right to the truck bed and camper which I would think that if you could lower those shock loads by having a turn buckle set up with some stretch factor you could absorb some of that energy at the turn buckle vs working the camper and truck bed. Would be interesting to see if anyone has experimented with alternate types of materials for the turn buckle solution.

 

[Alex]

I use external spring loaded tie downs on the front and a single internal tie down in the back. Have been to Tea Kettle Junction running around 25mph through the washboard without issue. My 2 cents is if possible use spring loaded tie down.

 

[bajafshrman]

Thanks for the head up! Really important to stay on top of those turnbuckles. I've noticed this coming up a fair amount and agree - there must be a better solution.

I owned a Grandby years ago, had it on a F350. It was back when they bolted them right through the floor. They abandoned this, I think, because the connection was too static - no flex - and the camper took too much of the load? Anyone know for sure why they changed to the small turnbuckles?

After the Grandby I had a Northstar - great camper but a lot more weight. I had receivers welded to the frame and ran long turnbuckles from the camper to the bar that slid into the receiver. This offered a very solid connection and a fair amount of flex through the longer turnbuckles. It worked great, never slipped or came loose, and lasted a long time.

Now I have an '06 Tundra and an ATC Bobcat - great fit and perfect size for us. But, I drive dirt roads every day so I'm a bit nervous about the turnbuckles. Perhaps multiple connections might spread the load? Maybe bolt through the floor as well as use the turnbuckles? Or maybe additional turnbuckles from the outer corners of the camper to the exterior of the truck bed like most campers have?

Just thinking out loud… any thoughts?

 

[bajafshrman]

There you go… that looks super solid, Alex. Did they set that up for you or did you add it?

 

[PaulT]

Wonder if Torklift Spring loads could be adapted to provide that stretch factor?

http://www.torklift.com/index.php/products/turnbuckles/basic-springload

Paul

 

[Alex]

There you go… that looks super solid, Alex. Did they set that up for you or did you add it?

I ask ATC to add the external tie down eye bolts when I order the camper.

My thought at the time was truck and the camper will flex at a different rate thus the turn buckles will stretch/compress to accommodate that. That movement on the turn buckle will work the turn buckles loose, lock-tie will help but there is no element in the truck/camper/tie-down combo to absorb the flex rate difference so if the system takes a hit big enough the weakest part in the system will break. So I opt the external tie-down that is spring loaded. This give the whole system an element to absorb the flex and it's easy to visually inspect the tie downs. 2%

 

[Alex]

Wonder if Torklift Spring loads could be adapted to provide that stretch factor?

http://www.torklift.com/index.php/products/turnbuckles/basic-springload

Paul

I believe this will prevent the turn buckle from getting loose.

 

[DonC]

Great topic. On very rough roads like that to the Racetrack, or on 4WD roads in general, it is common to lower the air pressure in your tires. Is there an equivalent for what we should do with our turnbuckles? I would rather loosen them a little and have slight movement than have an absolute rigid system that might rip something out, which has happened twice to me. Until this thread I had not thought about that being a potential cause.