SuperSprings vs. Air Bags - FWC Hawk

[SD_Beaker]

I have begun the quest for figuring out what to do to help my rear end on my '08 Tundra. Sorry for the long winded details, but from my searching, I have a very typical setup and I could not find any great answers.

A few details:

1. I have a nicely appointed Hawk on my '08 Tundra (Double cab, 5.7L, TRD, 4x4, Tow Package).

2. Per FWC weight list, it's right at 1,373#. My capacity is 1,520 #. As I usually carry trout rods or surfboards I'm just at 100%.

3. I have Firestone Airbags. These work fine on highways but off road they are very limited in articulation.

4. When I got the truck, there was a spacer leveling kit installed (Rough Country 87000 2.5-inch - 3-inch Suspension Leveling Lift Kit for Toyota: 07-18 Tundra 4WD). When my Hawk was on, I could not reach the top to put my surfboards on (see my solution for that at: Loading / Unloading Roof racks here at WTW) so I came up with a fix.

5. I then removed the leveling kit, and at 6'5" I can just reach up for the boards now!

What I want is:

A. Remove the air bags for better off road travel
B. Keep stock height.

"Kevin" from FB FWC did ARB Dakar springs with two Add-a-Spring on each side. According to him this is great; however, it adds about 2.5" in the rear. Not the 'end of the world' but it does conflict with desire B. I've reached out to 2 suspension shops, and it appears that B causes quite a bit of challenge. They are looking into it, but have come up with nothing.

Now for question: Can anyone share experience with SuperSprings SSA27 (They are offered right on the FWC website)?

- They add 1,650# which seems perfect.
- They would keep me at stock height.
- If they are a bit too low, I still have the 1.5" block from my old leveling kit, which seems would allow me to 'adjust' the height if needed.

Any help here would be greatly appreciated. Thx.

 

[ntsqd]

Have you considered using the Daystar cradles, or have the air springs left a bad taste?

Can't help with the SuperSprings other than to say that 4-ish doors down from their location is a good brewpub.

 

[trikebubble]

I have the Dakar leaf pack, with an added leaf, and the Firestone airbags with Daystar cradles. I'm lifted about 4" so I'm ok with the spring pack. I usually run a our 25psi in my airbags, just to assist with the load. The best part about having airbags is allowing you to fine tune your camper level when parked and camping.

 

[Mighty Dodge Ram]

Daystar cradles...then see if you really need additional springs. I stay as close to stock as possible.

 

[windy]

I had super springs on my Tacoma. They were perfect when loaded (height wise) but raised about 2.5” when unloaded.

 

[larryqp]

I had a set of custom rear springs made at Alcan Springs in Grand Junction, CO for my Ford Ranger. I told them I wanted an additional 1000lbs of capacity over OEM and OEM height. They also made new U-bolts. Took about 4 weeks, approximately $700. I had the option of them shipping them to me or picking them up. I picked them up and they referred me to a shop in town where I made an appointment and had them installed for $160. We never take the FWC off, truck rides great on highway and off road. I did add Rancho shocks.

They will meet any specs you want, ie an additional 1200 lbs and an additional 1 " of height etc

They did warn me that if I took off the FWC, the truck would ride like a brick.

Alcan is strictly a spring manufacturing shop. check it out www.alcanspring.com

 

[klahanie]

B. Keep stock height.

<snip>

I've reached out to 2 suspension shops, and it appears that B causes quite a bit of challenge. They are looking into it, but have come up with nothing.

Are these truck spring shops, ie repair/ replace and install ? I ask because for 2 trucks I went to spring shops that work on commercial vehicles (5 ton, bus, even firetrucks) but also light trucks, and had them install rear add a leafs.

First time I wanted lift and took what they gave me. Second time (and vehicle) I left the loaded truck and told them I wanted it leveled. I think they had to use 2 leafs to achieve this. Third time I had aux spring pack added. These were pre made but installed to my spec for contact.

Point is, each time I got the impression that it was the kind of job they did all the time. I assume the main leaf pack was disassembled, re worked, re arched, leaf added, etc... whatever was required for the customer's order.

No doubt there are limits to what can be done, maybe a percentage of change of leaf addition ratio. And of course you may not have this type of shop nearby. Just seems there'be be less guessing going this route if it were possible.

 

[Beach]

I added Super Springs on my 06 Tundra, they worked well but if I had to do it over I would replace the entire spring packs. I won't ever need too since the Hawk no resides on a 3/4T

 

[DavidGraves]

Custom spring makers were/are quite common but they primarily serve the commercial trucking trade...both with new setup and replacement of broken springs...pretty common on the big trucks.

Another fascinating aspect of commercial truck suspension shops is that it is quite common to heat and bend forged front axles to tweek the tire wear....an evolution of my grandaddys' blacksmith shop.

David Graves

 

[So Cal Adventurer]

I have begun the quest for figuring out what to do to help my rear end on my '08 Tundra. Sorry for the long winded details, but from my searching, I have a very typical setup and I could not find any great answers.

A few details:

1. I have a nicely appointed Hawk on my '08 Tundra (Double cab, 5.7L, TRD, 4x4, Tow Package).

2. Per FWC weight list, it's right at 1,373#. My capacity is 1,520 #. As I usually carry trout rods or surfboards I'm just at 100%.

3. I have Firestone Airbags. These work fine on highways but off road they are very limited in articulation.

4. When I got the truck, there was a spacer leveling kit installed (Rough Country 87000 2.5-inch - 3-inch Suspension Leveling Lift Kit for Toyota: 07-18 Tundra 4WD). When my Hawk was on, I could not reach the top to put my surfboards on (see my solution for that at: Loading / Unloading Roof racks here at WTW) so I came up with a fix.

5. I then removed the leveling kit, and at 6'5" I can just reach up for the boards now!

What I want is:

A. Remove the air bags for better off road travel
B. Keep stock height.

"Kevin" from FB FWC did ARB Dakar springs with two Add-a-Spring on each side. According to him this is great; however, it adds about 2.5" in the rear. Not the 'end of the world' but it does conflict with desire B. I've reached out to 2 suspension shops, and it appears that B causes quite a bit of challenge. They are looking into it, but have come up with nothing.

Now for question: Can anyone share experience with SuperSprings SSA27 (They are offered right on the FWC website)?

- They add 1,650# which seems perfect.
- They would keep me at stock height.
- If they are a bit too low, I still have the 1.5" block from my old leveling kit, which seems would allow me to 'adjust' the height if needed.

Any help here would be greatly appreciated. Thx.

Hey Man

This is Kevin from the FB group.

I am 99% sure i saw you in Borrego this weekend. Did you highbeam me over near the sculptures as i was heading out?

I noticed youre also in SD. Youre welcome to swing by and check out and drive my truck anytime.

Also, i have a set of adjustable Bilstein 5100s in my garage complete and ready to bolt on, set at 1.5" lift, much better than a spacer, let me know if ya want em.

I went through every combo possible before finding what i think is the best solution.

 

[MotoDave]

I'll weigh in with my experience with my 2012 Tundra DC with a Hawk. I am running Icon leaf spring packs, Airlift airbags with daystar cradles, and Bilstein 5100 shocks all around, with the spring perch on the middle height setting in the front. Truck sits about as raked as stock except 1.5" lift. I'm now happy with how the truck handles the weight, and when the camper is removed ride is pretty close to stock. I could see custom springs being better loaded, but I run w/o the camper at least half the year and I cant see it doing both well.

I started out with just the Bilstein shocks. The back sagged a lot when I loaded the camper on, and I wasn't happy with sway on twisty roads either. I added the airbags, choosing Airlift because they have a bump stop inside the bag. The way any of the airbags mount limits droop travel, and I found out the hard way that the airlift end caps are plastic and when used as a limit strap the inserts pull out. Airlift did replace the bags for free, but in order to not have it happen again I installed Daystar cradles to disconnect the bottom of the bag and let it droop out. Off road articulation was back to (almost) normal, but the Daystar cradles eat up ~1.5" of uptravel and I was bottoming out on the super stiff Airlift bump stops constantly. The Icon leaf spring pack added just enough height to get me off the bump stops, and seem to articulate better than the stock leafs as well.

I'd really like to know how a 3/4 or 1 ton truck with stock suspension handles the camper, I'm always surprised when I see people adding air bags to these trucks, I guess they also have to be tuned to ride decently unloaded at the expense of load capacity.

 

[CougarCouple]

Morning MotoDave
We have a F-250 with ATC's Cougar similar to a Grandby. I feel the truck handled the weight and we are around 600-700 lbs from the GVWR. I added Hellwig air springs for a couple reasons. When adding a trailer it did affect the headlamps, so night driving oncoming traffic was constantly flashing us to turn high beams off. Secondly the stance of the truck, and the Hellwig's did correct this. After install it does feel like the truck handling and ride is improved, I do not have a rear sway bar. PSI is around 25-30. Our truck w/o camper and gear two people and 30 gallons of fuel is 7,300 lbs, last summer fully loaded was 9,300 lbs. (sorry don't remember the exact numbers but first two digits are correct)

Russ

PS have the cradles but didn't install yet. Cradle manufacturer said they were working with Hellwig, might give it a try this summer. Too little time too many projects.

 

[Vic Harder]

I'd really like to know how a 3/4 or 1 ton truck with stock suspension handles the camper, I'm always surprised when I see people adding air bags to these trucks, I guess they also have to be tuned to ride decently unloaded at the expense of load capacity.

My 2500 HD handles the camper just fine. I never feel the need to slow down because of sway or a misbehaving suspension on paved roads.

 

[klahanie]

I'd really like to know how a 3/4 or 1 ton truck with stock suspension handles the camper, I'm always surprised when I see people adding air bags to these trucks, I guess they also have to be tuned to ride decently unloaded at the expense of load capacity.

I can report for our current truck we were able to put the entire allowable vehicle payload onto the rear axle and the truck handled it just fine. Mind you it came with "HD" springs being a cab and chassis and of course a rear sway bar. Don't recall the amount of defection/squat but that's more estetics. No way I think we could have hit the bump stop with that load and usual driving, maybe crossed up thru a ditch etc but not that I recall.

"Empty" was a different matter, natch the ride was/is firmer than many would be used to; toleration and acceptance a personal choice.

 

[rubberlegs]

A third option to springs and airbags are Sumosprings. Basically they are like airbags, but a lot simpler. We've been happy.

 

[ntsqd]

The new to us Cuchara 9.5XL sagged the rear suspension notably with the flipped over-loads. Adding them back into the system leveled us out again. The one trip that I took prior to Ruben working his usual magic had me wallowing all over the road in the twisty-curvy's. Haven't had it out on a trip since the change, but just driving it home it felt a lot more stable.