The Evolution of Surveying

[Wandering Sagebrush]

If you own property, here’s how the physical location was described and documented in times gone by. Methods have changed, but not the result. We still depend on it.

 

[AWG_Pics]

Steve, having done my fair share of surveying long ago with level lines and a plane table and alidade, I am looking forward to checking out the video you posted.

 

[craig333]

I'm always surprised when I meet people who have no idea what a k-tag is, or can't believe someone actually lugged around a chain. I appreciate all the work those old guys did. I never really thought the trees falling down and I did not realize they used rocks back in the day. Learned something new today.

 

[AWG_Pics]

I sometimes wonder how many of the temporary benchmarks and measuring points I helped establish in Idaho and western Montana are built over, washed away and otherwise destroyed. Great video, Steve.

 

[rubberlegs]

Thanks for this heads up. I've run into quite a few township/range markers out in the middle of nowhere, which are always fun to see. Also I've found survey sticks on the tops of obscure summits that few people would visit.

Deb has given her talk on the NV/CA boundary survey a few times, about the long oblique line from Lake Tahoe to the Colorado River. It's quite a story, researched by LeRoy and Jean Johnson. One of the first boundary surveys was attempted in the mid-19th century that ended up a total fiasco. On USGS 7.5' maps you'll still see two lines along that border. It wasn't resolved until 1980 Supreme Court decision!

On a recent trip we explored along the line, finding several tall cairns on both sides of the line according to our GPS readings. We'll probably do more exploring along the line. Here's an example:

 

[Smokecreek1]

Interesting! Thousands of years ago as a young(?) archeologist in training, I learned how to use the plane table and alidade for site mapping: we don't have the space here to relate all the great adventures I had over the years-including a resurvey (using a plane table and alidade) of the past site cultural record of Yosemite Valley. Anyway, when I first went to work for the BLM, it was standard practice back then to send all new employees to map reading school for a week-it was taught by BLM surveyors-the guys that Craig was talking about who make all those wonderful USGS maps. Needless to say, it was a great course-can't have BLMers getting lost in the woods now can we!

Over the years here, we have had many discussions here about since the advent of GPS, people seem to have forgotten how to read maps and the "old Ways" of doing things. We all know there is nothing better than planning that next WTW adventure, especially collecting and looking at all those wonderful maps-paper maps and notes and books and things that are real and not some plastic thing run by batteries. Okay, okay, I have my old Garmin, and jt makes life easier, but maps are more fun! What do you expect I'm an archaeologist after all!

Smoke

 

[Casa Escarlata Robles Too]

I always enjoyed hiking through a forest and coming across a marker tree then locating
where I was on the map.
Amazing work that a surveyors did.
Also finding the USGS brass markers and reading the info.
Frank

 

[DesertDog]

Thanks for sharing a fantastic video. Inconceivable to me how the first surveyors were able to map out the western states with relatively simple, but accurate, instruments over mountain ranges, forests and rivers. Hard enough to do on level terrain but throw elevation changes and more than a few trees in your line of sight all the while hoofing all your supplies on muleback being miles away from nearest resemblance of a city. We owe a debt of gratitude to these people whom led the way for all railroads, highways and bridges that followed paths they surveyed.

 

[buckland]

As part of my math class I made theodolites ...crude..... compass/level/plumb bob/and a 22 caliper rifle sight. Had the kids map out an arboretum ... chaos and fun and some learning. Kids love kinesthetic learning... hands on and high energy. Using original hand tools is still vital for integrating knowledge. Cabinetry, metal work ....sure CNC machines can do but real grasp of it is still connected to hand/eye work. Meaningful.

 

[Sagebrush Reconnoiterer]

Nice video, Sage. I briefly worked on the survey crew for the State of Wyoming back in 1985-1986, establishing the state line during a paving project. Didn't want to waste one taxpayer's dollar if one pebble of asphalt fell inside Nebraska!

Otherwise, my personal experience has been in developing my acreage. It was already surveyed decades ago, but the survey nails difficult to find due to windblown dirt and brush. I tried to establish center with a 300' reel tape, but wind and brush made it impossible. So I used my basic, data only Garmin eTrex GPS unit and walked the property diagonally and crosswise, establishing and placing a stake where I determined center was. The result was a circle of stakes about six feet across, and placed a stake in the center of those. That's where my home is now.

In the Mono Basin, near June Lake, California, the Los Angeles Department of Water & Power had a large project in the 1930s to divert creeks that flowed into Mono Lake into the Owens River system as part of their aqueduct to send water 300 miles south to LA. To do so required a six mile tunnel under the seismically active Mono Craters. The project required tunneling in from each end, plus sink two shafts and tunnel each way from those. Large camps were built at each end, plus smaller camps at both shafts. Surveyors used Theodolites and built large concrete bases to mount them on. Though using multiple locations scattered along the route, the tunnel was only off six inches. Remains of the camps and Theodolite bases are still found.

 

[Sagebrush Reconnoiterer]

Thanks for this heads up. I've run into quite a few township/range markers out in the middle of nowhere, which are always fun to see. Also I've found survey sticks on the tops of obscure summits that few people would visit.

Deb has given her talk on the NV/CA boundary survey a few times, about the long oblique line from Lake Tahoe to the Colorado River. It's quite a story, researched by LeRoy and Jean Johnson. One of the first boundary surveys was attempted in the mid-19th century that ended up a total fiasco. On USGS 7.5' maps you'll still see two lines along that border. It wasn't resolved until 1980 Supreme Court decision!

On a recent trip we explored along the line, finding several tall cairns on both sides of the line according to our GPS readings. We'll probably do more exploring along the line. Here's an example:
View attachment 1110207

Here's one for Deb. I don't know if you knew of or visited this site.

This is the first train crossing into California on the narrow gauge Carson & Colorado Railroad, which ran from Mound House (near Virgnia City, Nevada), to Keeler, California (in the southern Owens Valley, southeast of Lone Pine). The construction and first train crossed this point in 1883. At the time, the von Schmidt boundary was the official state line. The obelisk is gone, but the base remains and is easily accessible. I found it in the late 1980s by parking at the stateline on US6, walked to the location and took these photos.

Simulating the 1883 scene. The base is at the lower left. A beer can is seen (I imbibed in a can of Budweiser walking to the site).

A close up of the base. The beer and my ever present microcassette recorder is on the base for scale.

 

[rubberlegs]

This is news to us and thanks! We’ll have to go find it too. Very cool.

She’ll talk about the “Boundary Boondoggle” (and another on female prospectors) next month in Reno, info is here: Deborah A. Fox

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

David, we need to talk about your choice in cold carbonated soup.

On the other hand, that’s an interesting bit of history! Thanks for sharing.

 

[Sagebrush Reconnoiterer]

David, we need to talk about your choice in cold carbonated soup.

On the other hand, that’s an interesting bit of history! Thanks for sharing.

Note, on my tagline under my avatar it says "The Historian." Not "The Beer Connosseur."

Well, in those days, Miller High Life was my beer of choice! Nowadays, in summer it's Miller High Life, in winter Guiness Stout. But I don't drink as much beer as I used to. I've got a six pack of Miller in the refrigerator that's been there nearly a week and only two are missing.

 

[AWG_Pics]

I remember the old beer wars between Bud drinkers and Coors (pronounced Kerrs) drinkers. Nowadays if it isn't an IPA, a hazy IPA or a stout of some sort, it just ain't beer. No more Rocky Mountain Horse Pi__.

In my surveying days we would pound down the RMHP, bang chests and generally bloviate about what was best. Then go out and scramble in and out of streams, through brush, dodge angry bulls, etc etc etc all day. Then back to the bar for more RMHP. What a life.

 

[Sagebrush Reconnoiterer]

My father always kept an aluminum keg with a tapper spout of RMHP in the fridge when I was growing up. I didn’t like taste of beer, and especially Coors, and didn’t start drinking beer until the early ‘80s when I was nearing 30. My friends drank High Life, and soon so did I. I’ll occasionally drink RMHP if nothing else is available, but Coors is still not my favorite.

 

[ski3pin]

Beer and surveying..............................now that explains all those crazy shaped numbered sections found in the Desolation Wilderness.

 

[ski3pin]

Here's one for Deb. I don't know if you knew of or visited this site.

This is the first train crossing into California on the narrow gauge Carson & Colorado Railroad, which ran from Mound House (near Virgnia City, Nevada), to Keeler, California (in the southern Owens Valley, southeast of Lone Pine). The construction and first train crossed this point in 1883. At the time, the von Schmidt boundary was the official state line. The obelisk is gone, but the base remains and is easily accessible. I found it in the late 1980s by parking at the stateline on US6, walked to the location and took these photos.

Simulating the 1883 scene. The base is at the lower left. A beer can is seen (I imbibed in a can of Budweiser walking to the site).

A close up of the base. The beer and my ever present microcassette recorder is on the base for scale.

Now Mr. Historian, we would have gone searching for this spot. Just saying.

 

[Sagebrush Reconnoiterer]

Now Mr. Historian, we would have gone searching for this spot. Just saying.

Yeah, but the hike is less than 20 miles, Julie can see it without her "see mores", and there's nothing for her to climb ...

 

[Taku]

Surveyed a lot in Nevada and southeast CA. A lot of that country was surveyed by contract which actually meant it was done from the bar. Never got done in the field. Spent a lot of time and effort looking for corners that were never established. That being said as others have noted is is amazing where it was done in some very rough country. Working fires along the ID/MT border for years is was always interesting to try and figure out the legal for a fire with all the PB (protracted boundary) lines. A lot easier once GPS became common.