The weakest part of a half ton

[brett13]

So over at tundrasolutions.com there is always this long running debate about just how stout the new Tundra's are. The argument goes something like this "the rear diff is huge, brakes are huge, engine is huge, tranny is overbuilt, etc. etc. until someone says "this is really a 3/4 ton truck" to which everyone else says no. So I'm wondering, regarldless of it's true capacity, what is the weakest link? If the suspension is properly beefed up, what will fail first? My guess is the bearings or something like that, but lots of you guys heavily overload Tacomas, sooo I dunno.

 

[pods8]

I'd have to say the frame (and its rating) but I'm not the truck expert either...

 

[brett13]

I'd have to say the frame (and its rating) but I'm not the truck expert either...

I thought of that, but I'm not so sure. The taco's seem to hold. Les is the only one I every knew of firsthand to break a frame and he was way over capacity AND on a serious 4wd trail. If you're not lifting tires off the ground and slamming down, I don't see frames breaking unless under extreme weight and I'm not asking about making 1/2 ton carry 3000lbs+ (more like around 2000lbs vs the 1100-1500 stated payload of Tacomas and Tundras). I could be wrong though.

 

[Stan@FourWheel]

I don't know the answer to your question.

But I have talked with MANY Tundra owners over the past 6 years and have never heard of any major problems with the trucks, frames breaking, or anything like that.

I can't remember any customers coming in or calling in with major truck issues because they had too much weight in their truck. But im sure someone had done it.

I think some of the early Tundras had issues with front brakes wearing out quickly, but I think they fixed that over the years.

The new 07' / 08' Tundras looks MUCH beefier too !

We have a 2001 Toyota Tundra 4x4 here at the shop we have been using for years to haul parts, deliver campers (BIG & small), photos shoots, towing delivery trailers, shows, etc.

We put an FWC on that truck, and towed a 4500 lbs. trailer to Portland and back with that truck. I wouldn't recommend that, but the truck didn't miss a beat.

Our Tundra here has carried 1800 - 1900 lbs. campers all over the place. I think the truck has approx. 130,000 miles on it.

No rear end problems yet.
No transmission problems yet.
No frame probelms yet.
No engine problems yet.

I would give any of the Tundra Trucks a big thumbs up for over all performance, durability, and reliability !



BUT, in my opinion it is not a 3/4 ton truck. Just a great 1/2 ton truck that will last most people a really long time.

We have had 4 other 3/4 ton trucks here for deliveries and they do much better for carrying big loads and towing big trailers.


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So over at tundrasolutions.com there is always this long running debate about just how stout the new Tundra's are. The argument goes something like this "the rear diff is huge, brakes are huge, engine is huge, tranny is overbuilt, etc. etc. until someone says "this is really a 3/4 ton truck" to which everyone else says no. So I'm wondering, regarldless of it's true capacity, what is the weakest link? If the suspension is properly beefed up, what will fail first? My guess is the bearings or something like that, but lots of you guys heavily overload Tacomas, sooo I dunno.



.

 

[the fisherman]

1/2 Ton Trucks

The biggest problem with a 1/2 ton truck I think is that if you really use it as a truck, you're probably using it at gvw or over weight. They don't tow as well as a bigger truck. I've always looked at 1/2 tons more like a big car. I think if you're into campers, even light weight campers, you're better off with a 3/4 ton truck. You can grow into a 3/4 ton truck, you will grow out of a 1/2 ton. I have a Torque Monster, it's what I need, camper on, 8000# boat, or race car trailer, flyin' down I 5 at 75mph no problem, a 1/2 will never do that. I the case of trucks, Bigger is better most of the time. Ford looks to have the first deisel 1/2 ton coming at the end of the year, unless the gov. stops them from making the thing, which they might. (don't take any bail out cash, make what you want, you might stay in business)

 

[pods8]

The biggest problem with a 1/2 ton truck I think is that if you really use it as a truck, you're probably using it at gvw or over weight.

I think he's asking what is the limiting factor on GVWR on most trucks? He was saying if X, Y, and Z are all "heavy duty" why is it still rated 1/2T.

 

[the fisherman]

I think he's asking what is the limiting factor on GVWR on most trucks? He was saying if X, Y, and Z are all "heavy duty" why is it still rated 1/2T.

For the answer to that question, I think you have to ask the marketing and advertisment dept., rather than the engenering dept. I don't think they want to call them wimpy, heavy duty sounds much better.

 

[pvstoy]

............ The argument goes something like this "the rear diff is huge, brakes are huge, engine is huge, tranny is overbuilt, etc. etc. .............. So I'm wondering, regarldless of it's true capacity, what is the weakest link? ..............

For some it's ego and the first thing to fail is between the ears.

 

[brett13]

For the answer to that question, I think you have to ask the marketing and advertisment dept., rather than the engenering dept. I don't think they want to call them wimpy, heavy duty sounds much better.

Like pods was saying, I'm just curious what the weakest link is. For example, the new Tundra's frame is "30% stronger", but the truck weighs only 15% more (empty). The ring gear is 10.5" vs 9" on other 1/2Ts. Brakes are huge. Tranny is huge and stout. I could go on and on, but the payload is the same as the old Tundra. Putting all the marketing stuff aside, if you were to drive a new Tundra with a 2000# payload (about 5-600 over GVWR), what would give first? I'm thinking it would be bushings because the truck is designed to tow almost 11,000# so the tranny, engine, brakes are all designed for the stress. Or maybe not.

 

[the fisherman]

Now I Think I Get It

The new Tundra really hasn't been around long enough to really know if there is any real weaknesses. I have a good friend who has one and he uses his very hard, lots of towing, I think he has 40k on the thing, but there is one weakness with the gas engine and towing, no exhaust braking. If you tow on the flat, no problem, but if you have to deal with a lot of grades, you're going to burn up the brakes real fast, which he already has. He also gets about 8mi to the gal. under heavy load contitions, and that's not to great.

 

[pods8]

Slight hijack but sorta on topic abd I've been wondering: Our winter fuel is mostly pellets which I buy two 1 ton pallets of each season. When I had my ranger I'd hand load 1000lb into it (a bit over GVWR) and drive the couple miles back to our place in 30mph zones and all was well. I'm curious with the bigger rig and airbags if I could potentially get away with having them just put the whole 2000lb pallet in the truck for that same trip? Payload on mine is something like 1200 with the 4x4 eating into the GVWR. The air springs would be helping out the squat so I'd guess I'd mainly be risking the rear axle/bearings if I did something like this next season? Stupid idea or probably fine for the couple miles a low speed?

 

[the fisherman]

Like pods was saying, I'm just curious what the weakest link is. For example, the new Tundra's frame is "30% stronger", but the truck weighs only 15% more (empty). The ring gear is 10.5" vs 9" on other 1/2Ts. Brakes are huge. Tranny is huge and stout. I could go on and on, but the payload is the same as the old Tundra. Putting all the marketing stuff aside, if you were to drive a new Tundra with a 2000# payload (about 5-600 over GVWR), what would give first? I'm thinking it would be bushings because the truck is designed to tow almost 11,000# so the tranny, engine, brakes are all designed for the stress. Or maybe not.

You got me thinking about this for some reason, I know a guy who is a roofer, so I gave him a call to ask about wear and tear on his trucks. He told me that his guys are always running his trucks far above gross everyday, hauling material to the job and debris away. He has a lot of trouble with diff. bearings, the spring packs go flat fairly quick, and u joints don't last too long. He's tried all of the big 3, he does have Fords now, he tells me that used that way, in 24 mo. the trucks are pretty much shot. So, yes you can run a truck way over gross, but maybe not forever. I also asked him if he would buy a Toyota next time he needed a truck, he said yes, but he thinks they need to build a diesel, no matter what the gov. says about what we need, we will always need trucks.

 

[EdoHart]

A non-professional guess.

Assuming you're driving responsibly (allowing for additional stopping distance, slower in corners, lower acceleration, etc) I would think that the axles are the weakest link. After all, they are carrying all the weight. In addition, if you're driving at normal speeds, that will mean greater heat generation at the wheel bearings.

Next I think would be suspension, then drive train and brakes, and finally frame. But that's just my guess.

 

[Brewery Meister]

I have a 02 Tundra Limited...

I love it. I'm not an engineer but I've had a camper on it for almost 5 years... over all kinds of terrain and it has never had a problem. Just this last weekend I took FIVE people and three dogs... well 2 and 1/2 dogs to the Sierras with the camper completely loaded with gear and was over 80 mph a lot of the way.

The Tundra is the tightest truck I've had and I've had a GMC 3/4 ton camper special, a Ford 3/4 ton a Chevy Blazer and two of the old FJ40's... Those were all great vehicles but the Tundra is in a class of it's own.

BUT....I've never towed with it. My dad towed trailers and race cars all over the country and he loved the GMC with the 454 because it had tons of torque.

I just wish Toyota built a 3/4 ton Tundra. That would be a heck of a vehicle...

 

[ScottBailey]

If, or is it when?

If Toyota ever makes a real truck (i.e. 2000 pounds usable cargo) Chevy will exit that market.

 

[DirtyDog]

I don't know if you guys remember the thread a couple of years ago where the guy had one of the pre-2007 Tundra's and he was having a lot of trouble with wobble and vibration at speed when he got his ATC camper. He ended up trading the truck for one of the new Tundras but was still only marginally happy with the setup. He was a local guy and I met him one day and she showed me what bothered him.

Seems that the only thing Toyota did to beef up the frame on the new Tundras was to weld an extra strip of steel on them. The guy showed me how he could grab the cabover part of his camper with one hand, pull on it, and cause somewhat major movement between the bed and the cab as the frame flexed.

Now I'm not saying this is a big deal and it probably won't bother most but this guy sure didn't like it. Personally I'd like to see the Tundras go to a box frame.

 

[mtn-high]

Time will certainly tell how well these "trucks" hold up. I DO like my Tundra though.

And yeah, they could certainly beef it up some, for sure. However, what will really tell the tale for me is the same thing I watch for now..and that is that out here in CO/in the mountains you will still see quite a few older/80's models Toyota Tacoma's and even Forerunner's...however, you DON'T see many old Broncos, Rangers, S-10's, or Dodge's (whatever model they were) that were built in the same years...

No...wait...I did see an old 'late 80's model S-10 2 days ago...barely...through the cloud of smoke comin out the tailpipe...

YMMV....obviously!

 

[EdoHart]

...We also just got back from 10 days exploring Kofa wildlife area and did not brake anything!


Well, I suppose that's an accomplishment of sorts. You must be driving slower.

Just kidding. I look forward to the pictures. You always post great reports.

 

[brett13]

I don't know if you guys remember the thread a couple of years ago where the guy had one of the pre-2007 Tundra's and he was having a lot of trouble with wobble and vibration at speed when he got his ATC camper. He ended up trading the truck for one of the new Tundras but was still only marginally happy with the setup. He was a local guy and I met him one day and she showed me what bothered him.
That was a 1st gen Tundra, not the "new" 07+ ones that I and some others here have. I think it was the '06, right before they stopped production. Marty told me something was "weird" on that truck, but everyone else here that had 1 gen Tundra hasn't had those problems.

Seems that the only thing Toyota did to beef up the frame on the new Tundras was to weld an extra strip of steel on them. The guy showed me how he could grab the cabover part of his camper with one hand, pull on it, and cause somewhat major movement between the bed and the cab as the frame flexed.
The "new" Tundra's 2007+ have a completely new frame with nothing carried over from the 1st gen. Toyota says it is 30% "stronger", but the GVWR is just 15-20% higher. It is fully boxed under the engine, reinforced C channel under the cab and open C under the bed. I believe they used new metallurgy and the result is a "stronger" but also a much more flexible frame. There have been complaints that the frame is too flexible, but I think they designed it more to tow than haul. Of course anyone regularly towing over 10k lbs should get a 3/4 ton or more, but the Tundra can handle the average trailer no problem.

Personally I'd like to see the Tundras go to a box frame.
Me too, if for no other reason than to make the rig stiffer and avoid some flex of the camper.

 

[Brewery Meister]

02 Tundra

Hmmm,

I haven't had one bit of trouble with my Tundra ... and it rides like a car. Which to me, is nice. It has gotten me out of a number of "disquieting" moments, both off-road and on the road.

But, I'm sure that I don't drive my Tundra as hard as some of the guys who post here and I certainly don't drive it as hard as I did either of my Toyota Landcrushers... Nevertheless, it has proven to be an incredible truck for my use.

I don't want to bash another guys truck. But I like my Toyota. A lot. My SO has a 4Runner and all they do is keep running.

CB