Truck ownership philosophy

[srileo]

This is a freewheeling discussion... I want to understand the psychology/philosophy around recreational ownership of recreational toys.

Whenever my truck needs mechanical attention from a dealer, i inevitably fall into the "damn, should i just have gotten that newer, tougher, truck with fewer miles?" dilemma. I get that thought again when i look at my measly 14mpg compared to someone's claimed 16mpg. Or someone's 2500lb payload vs my 1600lb. Or their diesel vs my gas or their mods vs mine.

I am sure you guys wrestle with this as well. How do you make your peace?

For me, the $$ speak very loudly. I paid $18k for my used truck. I figure that a newer used truck will cost $8 -10k more + CA registration of approx $1300. The CA registration fee alone swallows up for any mpg advantage i might get with a newer truck. Plus i have invested in some mods in this truck which might have to be replicated in the newer truck (rear view camera, tow hitch etc) ...

How do you reason when you decide to keep or sell a vehicle? Or deferring maintenance? About doing upgrades earlier in the life of the vehicle/camper vs later on?

 

[Durango1]

I just spend. Seriously.

At 63 and since Sioux and I both really enjoy the WTW lifestyle and so why should we leave it ALL to the kids? NOTE: We are frugal on other "non-essential" stuff.

I feel there should be a brass plaque with my name on it at FWC headquarters!

Steve

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

My 2¢ worth. I typically buy vehicles new, but not always. My philosophy is to keep a truck at least 10 years. My T100 I had for 11 years, my F250 for 16 years. Both gave great service, no regrets on either.

You can't always make the 'right' decision, but you can make the decision 'right'. Sometimes that means changes to suspension, transmission coolers, adding a backup camera and things like that. While stuff like better mileage or features are interesting, it takes quite a while to get me thinking about replacing a truck.

I do feel that I made a mistake in buying a full size popup, so I am selling it to replace it with something that will fit on the Ford Ranger (it will be a FWC or ATC) that I bought from my father when he quit driving.

Edit: I also adhere to the philosophy that Durango espouses. It's called 'SKI', which stands for Spending Kids Inheritance...

 

[Vic]

Interesting question. I've long believed there was a cost-curve to ownership. Steep at the beginning with depreciation but relatively little or no repairs. Lets say years 1-4 (just making this up) have a lot of cost in depreciation. But with a warranty no unexpected repair costs.

Then years 5-9 are relatively flat - little depreciation but no real major replacements or non-routine maintenance.

Then years 10-15 things get a little more expensive, but not hugely. New brakes, shocks, alternator, etc.

After 15 years there is bound to be at least 1 'black swan' unforeseen problem. Computer, heater core, a/c compressor, differential bearings, etc.

Obviously I've made the the years for illustration purposes, and likely an individual could influence those based on maintenance and use. And I think the out years are largely influenced by your own ability to do some level of repairs yourself.

Great topic - look forward to watching this.

 

[srileo]

sagebrush
superb point about the "right decision" vs making the decision "right". Very well articulated.

I would add to your observation that a lot depends on where you were coming from when you made the "right decision" in the beginning. In my case, I was looking at Frontier/Tacoma as a base truck. Compared to that, the 1/2 ton Titan seemed to be a vastly "more right" choice - similar mpg, much better payload, braking, power, cheaper etc. The only downside was that it was a "big truck" for us SanFrancisco dwellers who'd never sat inside a truck and our other vehicles were a mazda miata and a 2 dr jeep.

Ofcourse, now that I have come to learn so much more about trucks, I realize that "best choice" would have been a 3/4 ton truck. But at that time, it was impossible to even fathom how to find a parking spot for a 3/4 ton truck, let alone try to park it on a san francisco hill.
Just today, i sat in the new Titan XD. And I realized that my regular old Titan felt like a tiny Frontier next to it. LOL The cycle repeats a full circle.

My 2¢ worth. I typically buy vehicles new, but not always. My philosophy is to keep a truck at least 10 years. My T100 I had for 11 years, my F250 for 16 years. Both gave great service, no regrets on either.

You can't always make the 'right' decision, but you can make the decision 'right'. Sometimes that means changes to suspension, transmission coolers, adding a backup camera and things like that. While stuff like better mileage or features are interesting, it takes quite a while to get me thinking about replacing a truck.

I do feel that I made a mistake in buying a full size popup, so I am selling it to replace it with something that will fit on the Ford Ranger (it will be a FWC or ATC) that I bought from my father when he quit driving.

Edit: I also adhere to the philosophy that Durango espouses. It's called 'SKI', which stands for Spending Kids Inheritance...

 

[Ace!]

I buy what I want, not what will get me by. I want to be happy with my purchase and don't want to second guess it, so I research what fits my needs best and buy it. I don't regret not getting the diesel, or the whatever. Save up and buy the best.

Also, as part of your question about when to buy another truck (or whatever). I also think that when you buy something you want you can still improve it. I drive a ten year old truck, because it was the truck I wanted when new, and new doesn't offer anything I want, EXCEPT, those things I can add to my truck. After ten years I wanted a front differential upgrade. I just bought and had installed a TrueTrac. It's what I wanted, not a new truck. So, you can still be happy with a 10+ year old truck if you start with what you want and improve on it. I have very little desire to have a new truck. I bought a 2016 for work. It doesn't do anything better than my truck, and I'd have to spend thousands on the stuff I want to make it as good as my truck.

 

[idahoron]

When I bought my 2005 Tundra New I knew exactly what I wanted. I kept my old truck and still use it to drive to work every day. I have had my 1988 toyota xtra cab for 26 years. I only have 88,000 miles on my tundra so I don't plan to buy anything new for a while.
I buy when the vehicle that I am driving is not doing the job. I have only bought one new truck but I will probably buy new next time too.

 

[Accrete]

good Q and enjoyed the read.
Though not a _truck_ I can comment on our rig...for us after much research (after having other adventure rigs) we decided on a van to convert into an overland adventure rig and what would be disignated as a daily driver for my wife ( < Trust the wisdom in that < ) .

At one point we researched getting a larger van as we wanted an easier camp-kitchen setup. After researching we decided to upgrade the rig we had (aluminess bumpers and galley box) instead of getting a larger van.

: ) Thom

 

[Happyjax]

I tend to keep vehicles for 8-12 years unless unforeseen circumstances intervene. My Toyota Solara is nearing 11 years old and I would keep it for several more if I could get a camper in that thing
I do not buy new vehicles on a whim......

I did look at a few used trucks thinking it would be more practical but wasn't finding anything that made me want to make the leap.

So when it came down to making a choice I decided I wanted a new truck with lots of payload and I would wait to check out the 2017 Ford F250 with the aluminum bed before I made any choice.

Lots of money gonna fly out the door and then a camper needs to go on top of that but...... Lots of miles that I will not be worrying about breaking down or replacing stuff. Could something go wrong, yes, but odds are in my favor and I like it that way. I will keep the truck for many years and I will enjoy it because I decided to wait and get what I wanted.

The truck is not an investment. What the truck will allow me to do is the investment.

Excursions to places my car could never take me but my truck will get me there and my camper will let me enjoy the stay

Friendships I have made and will make because I stumbled on a site full of cool people who also like to travel and share their knowledge and experiences.

Pictures I will take and share of amazing places that many people I know will never get the chance to visit.

I can't wait to see the night skies of the Midwest where the stars are so bright and the sky so full of them you can't imagine how Captain Kirk didn't sideswipe one with the Enterprise

Discoveries that will become memories which I will have until memories don't matter anymore.

Worth the money? I'm banking on a big yes!

I think I'm dangerously close to sounding like a credit card commercial....lol

My rambling philosophy FWIW

 

[Bill D]

I bought my truck new in 2009 and I have just about 100,000 miles on it now. I'd like to think that now is the time the vehicle is really going to start paying for itself instead of me paying for it.

2 MPG isn't going to make or break someone. Certainly no reason to even consider something new. Driving habits is going to be more of a factor than a rated 2 MPG difference.

The main cause for older vehicles failing is things start to leak, people run old fluid. The combination of low, old fluid that then overheats and loses its protective properties is what leads to most failures.

One payment > $ of changing all the fluids.

 

[Durango1]

Lots of money gonna fly out the door and then a camper needs to go on top of that but...... Lots of miles that I will not be worrying about breaking down or replacing stuff. Could something go wrong, yes, but odds are in my favor and I like it that way. I will keep the truck for many years and I will enjoy it because I decided to wait and get what I wanted.

The truck is not an investment. What the truck will allow me to do is the investment.

X2. Despite my earlier "SKI" comment we don't spend money just to spend money. Quite the contrary. We still have furniture we bought used at a yard sale... 40 years ago to furnish our first apartment!

BUT since Sioux and I travel alone into some pretty remote places my guiding philosophy is NO DRAMA. As in I want things to work and (usually) newer is better than older.

My other key concept is the time-honored "belt and suspenders" approach. For example, truck won't start. (Never happened yet.) We carry 1) 25' jumper cables (from adapted Warn cables to run our 10,000# winch that fits in a trailer receiver hitch) to jump from the camper batteries, 2) an industrial battery for jumping AND 3) (at times) a 2000 watt Yamaha generator with the engine charging cables!

The result? No drama! (Hopefully!)

 

[Kolockum]

It all depends on your budget. I did't have a large budget when I got my set up, truck for 7k and FWC camper for 3k. Used the rest of the money to travel. Granted the truck is older with a lot of miles but relatively easy to maintain and I am pretty good with vehicles. Plus when I dent the truck I don't feel as bad.

In hindsight I would have got a full size truck as the gas mileage would have been almost the same and I would have gotten more room.

 

[ntsqd]

I don't buy new. The depreciation when the front tires first touch the street is too much for me. Plus, I haven't seen a new vehicle that interested me enough to consider buying it since 1984. Today's new vehicles are simply too complicated. I see every one of those undesired, unnecessary "features" as a failure mode. Their failure may not stop us in our tracks, but as interconnected as late models are I'm not willing to risk it. I know of vehicles that have failed a CA smog test because some unrelated system was tied into the Check Engine light. If the OEM's will do that, what else have they done?

I'm much more comfortable looking a rig over for potential issues and fixing them before they become a problem. I keep vehicles until they A) loose my interest or B ) have outlived their usefulness to us. Like anyone, I make the best purchase that I can find at the time for my initial budget, but understand that I'll be spending money for a while on the "why we now own it's". After all the PO sold it for a reason, the first couple months are always steep in learning why.

 

[MTCK]

Great question. To me it's a pretty personal question of balancing budget, wants, needs and abilities.

I wanted a gas, one ton crew cab with straight axles that I can work on. A new Ford or Dodge is over 50k (and I prefer GM products) with creature comforts, and I can't swing a new camper and a new truck. Some of the new FWC features are really neat (dinette seating, bat wing awning etc) so I elected to fix up a truck and I'll buy a camper new.

I'm pretty mechanically inclined, which plays into the decision and we don't have a lot of rust up here so there are some nice older rigs on the road.

 

[Happyjax]

Computers I'm good at. Trucks not so much...... New for me

 

[ckent323]

There are few non vintage vehicles I would refurbish. However, I have a 1993 Dodge W250 (4WD) ClubCab Longbed Cummins Diesel with LE interior with reclining "Captains Chair" seats. I bought it used, including a Stockland bedcap, with 125,200 miles on it in 2000 for $12,250.

Total maintenance costs during my ownership, including tires, alternator, brakes, differential as well as transmission rebuilds, have been under about $8,000.

It is without a doubt the best, most reliable vehicle I have ever owned. It has about 375,000+ miles on it and is still running strong. The only issues I have had with it are that the ride is stiff (well it is a stout and robust full size FWD truck after all) and it is too noisy in the cab.

I am presently in the process of getting estimates to refurbish the truck: interior (including adding sound damping to firewall, ceiling, doors and floor), new seats (driver seat is shot) as well as minor body work and complete repaint.

I recently had the brakes and wheel bearings done and previously rebuilt the 5 speed Getrag tranny.

I suspect I can get at least another 10 -15 years out of this truck. I am thinking that in the end the body will fall apart around the drive train.

I have used it as a daily driver as well as going back and forth to Mammoth for skiing several times every year and we use it to carry our 2009 FWC Keystone (which has gone on and off once or twice a year - but now that we are both near retirement will probably go on and stay on much of the time).

Regards,

Craig

 

[Vic Harder]

@Craig " n the end the body will fall apart around the drive train".... I know mine will, the trucks may last a bit longer.

My wife likes reliable. I do too, and I do not equate that with "new". A bombproof warranty does me no good when I am 100 miles from nowhere. I'd rather have an older vehicle that I have researched top to bottom, fixed all the known issues on, and carry spares for the repeatable failures (cam angle sensors come to mind).

I change the "lifetime" fluids on my cars/trucks every year. Cheap insurance. And if anything is amiss, I spot it right away. There is nothing like being able to do your own maintenance. The very first time I do something on my truck in the boonies, I want to have done several time in my garage.

Hence, I am looking at a low mileage 10 year old truck for my "new" rig.

 

[ntsqd]

Craig, specific to your truck, I'd talk to Deaver Spring about what can be done to aid the ride quality.

And I'd look into a set of Bilstein's for it. Off the shelf 7100 models should have nearly ideal valving ("255/70") for leaf springs. You *might* get even better ride quality with custom valving in the shocks, but I'm not sure the gain is justified for your use.

If you do want to explore that PM me as there is a shop down here in Ventura that I think can help you with any or all of it and I can not recommend them more highly, and those on this board in our area think the same. I farm out my big projects to them, and my 70+ y.o. mother has them work on their Roadtrek (like adding a belly-pan skid plate to keep them from tearing more plumbing off on a dirt road).

 

[JaSAn]

I have four subjective criteria and the last three are sort of related:

1. The vehicle doesn't meet my needs. This happened with the last two cars I bought. Bought for milage, needed a truck.
2. I don't trust the vehicle anymore. If i cannot take it into the back country without trepidation, it sucks the joy out of a trip.
3. It costs too much to fix. This is a gut feel kind of thing. At some point the cost and time to fix a vehicle isn't worth it.
4. I get tired of fixing it. Happened with the last two trucks I owned. Do I really want to replace that rear main seal that is leaking on the clutch again?

I usually get a 12 - 15 years and ~300,000 miles out of my trucks. Being from Minnesota, it is usually the body that drives the change (although electronics is becoming more of an issue). And as I get older I am less inclined to want to keep crawling under my truck.

jim

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

<snip>

And as I get older I am less inclined to want to keep crawling under my truck.

jim

How very true!!! I suspect that age, along with vehicle complexity is driving a number of us to replace rather than repair if something major comes along. Crawling under a truck isn't fun anymore.