Tundra suspension upgrade

[Ted]

Hi All,

There has been a lot of discussion before on suspension upgrades but thought I'd start a new one. We have a 2000 Tundra extra-cab with 95,000 miles on it and a 2003 Hawk which is left on the truck permanently. It has the TRD package with the upgraded Bilstein shocks. We added overload springs to the original rear springs and have been happy with that up to now.
Recently we have noticed we can hear and feel the rear suspension bottom out on speed bumps and rough spots of dirt roads. I suspect the springs are getting tired and need replacing. How do confirm this and determine it is time to replace them? My other questions are:

1) Just add another leaf to the existing springs and have them reshaped or buy after market springs?
2) Replace the shocks at the same time or leave them be?
3) I see a lot of people have gone with air bags. How much does this cost? Do you need to carry a compressor on off-road trips?

All we are after is to beef up the suspension to handle the load. The way the vehicle rides is not a big concern. Bang for the buck, what is the best way to go?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Ted

 

[Quint]

Firestone Air Bags Rock

I've installed Firestone Air Bags on my small 4x2 Nissan and even with only 20lb in them I feel like they really support the bed. They go up to 100lb and can hold a lot of weight far more than my GVWR. Also, adjustability. Hard to beat air for versatility I just hope they are durable in the long run.

 

[jimjxsn]

I have the firestone ride-rite airbags on my tired old 2000 Tundra. They seem to work pretty well. I don't leave the camper on the truck all the time so I like the adjustability. I always thought the rear was pretty weak on the Tundra as even with just a topper on the back I could hit the bump stops on a large speed bump ( aren't you supposed to speed up over those? )...

I can't remember what I paid but I think they were around $250 plus installation. If you can drill the mounting holes in the frame they look like a pretty easy install.

 

[DLN]

Ted,

I carry my camper full time and originally went with the extra leaf and re-arched springs on my Tacoma. I still thought the ride was too soft, that is too much roll side to side. I have just added heavier shocks and it has helped clean up the ride a lot, but not quite enough. I'm going to add some Ride-Rite air bags to take the burden off the springs and to level up the rear end sage to the drivers side.

 

[kcowyo]

Recently we have noticed we can hear and feel the rear suspension bottom out on speed bumps and rough spots of dirt roads. I suspect the springs are getting tired and need replacing. How do confirm this and determine it is time to replace them?

With 95K on the odo plus a 700-800lb camper and your recent experience, I think you've already answered this question. If the springs are flat or in negative arch, they need upgrading. Ever pull onto a Toyota lot next to a similar Tundra and just eyeballed for comparison?


My other questions are:

1) Just add another leaf to the existing springs and have them reshaped or buy after market springs?
2) Replace the shocks at the same time or leave them be?
3) I see a lot of people have gone with air bags. How much does this cost? Do you need to carry a compressor on off-road trips?

All we are after is to beef up the suspension to handle the load. The way the vehicle rides is not a big concern. Bang for the buck, what is the best way to go?


Well as DLN mentioned, adding a leaf and/or re-arching a spring pack is not often the best choice. I've seen people re-arch and get some miles out of it, but to me it's a band-aid fix and not a solution. Custom springs from Alcan Springs or Deaver are an ideal solution for a truck with a camper mounted fulltime. The downside of custom packs that are built to carry the weight, is if you take the camper off the ride will be incredibly stiff.

Deaver Springs run about $600 per pair but they will make them custom to your application with ride height, camper weight and other variables factored in. Big bucks but as a friend of mine who builds up some amazing vehicles says, "Buy the best, bleed once."

Regarding shocks, I'm a big believer in the "system approach". Tires, shocks, suspension and brake upgrades are better done all at once or with the other components in mind. You don't want to put a burger fresh off the grill on a stale hamburger bun.... If you chose a solution that gives you any additional lift (springs) or lifting abilities (airbags) you will want shocks to accomodate that additional lift and travel.

I run the Air Lift Ride Control airbags. The kit was around $160 - $180, install time about 2.5 hours. These were by far the best modification to the truck following the purchase of the FWC. Everything they advertise about eliminating sway, jounce and understeer is dead on. The part about deflating one side, to level yourself in an uneven campsite is complete BS though, that doesn't work. But the airbags can provide as much as 3" of additional lift in the rear.

My driver's side -

I went this route for the adjustable factor as my camper is on and off the truck at various times. However even unloaded, the airbags really help improve the ride of a 6' empty bed bouncing around in traffic. The reason I chose Air Lift is because they offer their Load Controller II with the airbag kit. I didn't purchase it yet but I likely will add it later. It's an air compressor and gauges with in-cab controls, so you can air up on the fly. With this set up, you would not need an additional air compressor.

The Air Valves mounted through license plate holder -

I carry a Superflow MV-50 air compressor. I use this to air up my airbags and my tires. Here is a link to an excellent air compressor review by Peter Parks. It's amazing to see the numbers of the $50 MV-50 compared to the $300 compressors. They're small, lightweight and easy to use. The improved comfort on the trail by airing down the tires, airing up the bags and my adjustable shocks has been well, well worth it.

Hope this helps Ted!

 

[erod]

didn't read the other threads to thoroughly but i think kc mentioned, avoid the addaleaf...in my experience it doesn't really do anything. i have had them on fullsize rigs and they seem to add a bit more capacity but on my taco..worthless. bang for your buck, i would go air bags. i have the rid-rites and they are sweet. i also went with old man emu 7 leaf packs (toyotas have crappy leafs, mine sagged after 50,000 mi.) and fabtech shocks. i also know of a lot of folks that go with deavers, i think i maybe would if i was doing it over again but they are pricey, the old man emu's do the job nicely. probably wouldn't recommend the fabtechs, they work but are a little stiff, think i would go old man emu shocks as well, old company, well tested but not the cheapest. just a preference thing i guess, i also keep my truck on full time and other then the lack of visabilty i barely notice its there! oh yea, supercharger helps with that a bit !

ok, just read kc's, i think were on the same page. i too am getting one of those compressors, 50 bucks at costco and i have heard nothing but good things. also, great point to do the suspension all at one, if you can afford it. one thing to maybe mention, something i used, is american care care credit, available everywhere and if you spend over 400 dollars its no intrest for 6 months, pay the minimum monthly and your good. was a helpful option for me...cheers!

 

[Ted]

A lot of good advice.

Thank you for your responses. Kcowyo, your detail and photos were very helpful. And I really like the way you mounted the air valves. I'd really like to copy that. Did you need to modify the valve from stock to do that?

It looks like about $400-500 to do the air bags and shocks and maybe slightly less to replace the springs. Any particular order I should do this in? Or should I bite the bullet and do it all at once?

Ted

 

[erod]

just my .02 but i would do it all at once...like kc stated earlier. think i paid @ $300 for the airbags installed. may want to look on summit for shock, sometimes they have great deals. i found shocks for our 86' 4runner for $10.50 a piece! good luck and let us know what you decide.

 

[kcowyo]

If it were my money and my truck, and assuming the following -

• the springs still have some arch to them
• the Bilsteins have all 95K, or even over 70K on them

I would begin shopping for rear shocks first, with the idea that you're going to be very likely adding springs or bags soon with their additional rear wheel travel available. So you want the shocks length with an additional 2"-3" of travel figured in. And since it's "my money", with the camper on fulltime, I would want the best shocks that my budget and wife would allow me to get. Because shocks are the ligaments and tendons to the suspensions kneecap.

The next thing I would invest in is a small air compressor and a way to deflate your tires. It sounds tedious and a waste of time, but 20lbs less of air in the tires over washboards really helps smooth it out. I have Staun Tire deflators but they're a PITA. I would rather have an ARB EZ Tire Deflator for around $35. The $50 Superflow MV-50 air compressors that are available at Costco's and auto parts stores are great for what they do. For less than a $100, that would give me the ability to air down and back up with two reliable products.

Then I would throw some marinated steaks and a jug of Margarita mix in the fridge, grab the Mrs. and head down that bumpy road to my favorite beach on the lake for the weekend. If airing the tires down to 19PSI and the new shocks don't eliminate a good portion of the handling issues, then I would start deciding if I want to go big dollars for new spring packs or 1/3 as much for airbags. Use the margarita mix to get the Mrs. tipsy and see if she'll approve another upgrade.

Depending on the condition of the springs, you only need to add airbags or new springs, not both. If the springs have some life to them (and flipping the overload leaf can help temporarily I hear) start with the $200 airbags. No special modifications necessary to run the airlines through the license plate, they're turned to a 90 degree angle already. This also gives you another reason to justify the purchase of an air compressor.

If the springs are close to flat, and it was my money, I'd buck up for some nice custom packs designed with your specs in mind. A fulltime, no muss-no fuss solution that you never have to mess with. I would still get deflators and a compressor though. I can't believe how much difference in the ride that extra 15 minutes airing up and down makes.

Thanks for letting me play with your money Ted!

- K.C.

 

[erod]

kc, i agree 100%, either airbags and shock or springs or a variation but not everything. for me the springs were shot and i was able to sell them so it was kind of a no brainer with the new leaf packs. unfortunately they didn't give me the lift i was looking for...mostly visually so i added airbags. i think deavers are the way to go. i really like the adjustability of the airbags and they are relatively cheap so i would try those first (like kc stated). new shocks are always nice in my opinion, maybe start with the bags, see what you think. still not likeing the ride try a new set of shocks...the combination is likely cheaper than the deaver...or just go ahead and do both at once...if your shocks are shot anyway why not replace them...again check summit for a good price.

 

[Marc]

Get the Airbags and don't look back. My previous rig was a F250 4x4 which carried an Alaskan 8ft. NCO full time. This truck was the HD version and was equiped with the camper pkg. Still, with the weight of the Alaskan, (1400 lbs.) and the Honda ct90 on the back, I had a fair amount of sag. I installed a set of Firestone Airbags which eliminated the sag, improved handling and allowed me to tow my boat level. Here is a pic of my old rig off of Hwy 20 in Mendocino County. I had just finished a seasonal position with the State Parks and was on my way to Colorado for my next adventure.

Marc

 

[erod]

great pic marc, cool rig...i too recommend air bags to anyone with a camper...in my opinion, the best "bang for your buck"!

 

[brett13]

07 Tundra suspension

Thought I would keep my question under the Tundra heading even though it is a new model. As I posted elsewhere, I was really impressed how the stock Tundra handled the weight. It basically leveled the truck and the ride was very smooth. This was a light trip just to pickup the camper, so I may have a little more weight in it when I'm "on expedition". And I will be going off road with it. So I am thinking I should do something to help the suspension in the back right?

My first thought was airbags, but I don't want to stiffen the ride empty. My second thought was ranchos. My third thought was take off the TRD offroad Bilsteins (stiff) and put on the stock Toyota shocks with airbags. My fourth thought is that I really have no idea- so I thought I'd ask the experts around here.

Will airbags make the ride stiffer with no load even with 10# in them?
Do ranchos hold the loads when cranked up?
Does a sagging truck with airbags for support turn from a smooth ride back into a stiff ride where you feel all the bumps?
Other thoughts?

Thanks!

 

[kcowyo]

Will airbags make the ride stiffer with no load even with 10# in them?
Do ranchos hold the loads when cranked up?
Does a sagging truck with airbags for support turn from a smooth ride back into a stiff ride where you feel all the bumps?


Airbags don't make the ride stiff when the bed is empty. If anything they help eliminate any bounce and recoil that comes with having a 6 or 7 foot empty bed. That's the beauty of the airbags, loaded or unloaded they improve the ride. I run them at 25PSI unloaded and between 65-85 PSI with the camper on.

Adjustable shocks - Rancho's, Pro Comps or Bilsteins - will not support the weight of the camper by themselves. I had mine prior to the airbags and suffered a bucking bronc type ride for 500 miles back home after picking up my camper. The bags solved that. Adjustable shocks are great for driving over varied types of terrain and soaking up the bumps on washboard roads and stabilizing the load in stop and go, sudden lane changing or high winds, on-road conditions. The Bilsteins that came with your TRD package are top of the line, I wouldn't replace them until necessary.

It is aftermarket, custom made leaf spring packs, that when unloaded make for stiff ride, because they are not adjustable. A spring pack designed to lift and support and additional 1,000 lbs work great for a permanent truck & camper combo. But when unloaded, the springs still have the lift and strength built in and if not needed create a stiff, bouncey ride full of recoil after every bump in the road. For a truck that will not have the camper on full time, an adjustable solution like airbags will allow the driver to set the PSI for any conditions - loaded with a camper, with an empty bed, with 500lbs of sheet rock in the bed, or empty but towing a boat, trailer, etc.

Riding on air, whether 85 lbs of it, or 10 lbs of it improve the trucks handling in all conditions under any and all loads.

 

[jimjxsn]

Brett,
I have the Firestone Ride Rite air springs and like the ride both loaded and unloaded. I have found that they don't hold air indefinitely. I find that I have to fiddle with mine every week or so to keep the 10 lbs of air in them which is a PITA.

If you get the air bags, I would recommend getting an onboard air controller. Air Lift has a new electronic one, the Sure Set, that looks promising…

 

[brett13]

Thanks Kcowyo and Jim. Kcowyo, what truck do you have? I'm curious if it compares. Also, it sounds like I assumed correctly that I probably should beef up the back for those off-road and slightly more weighted conditions even though it rides pretty level now?

 

[kcowyo]

I wouldn't rush to add or replace anything unless you decide the ride quality with the camper on, is insufficient enough that you want to change it. I would go on a couple of outings and make mental notes of how it handles and then consider your options or if an upgrade is even necessary.

I'm simply suggesting airbags for 2 reasons -
1. Your camper squatted the rear of the Tundra 2.5 inches
2. When you picked it up you weren't fully stocked with gear like you might be for a trip.

I have a '97 Toyota T100, the pre-Tundra. But not the same design as the new Tundras though. My camper squatted the rear on mine 1.5 inches and I dealt with a lot of bounce, sway and understeer on the windy highways and in town. The bags really helped in those conditions. It took the airbags to return the truck to a near-stock ride with the camper loaded.

No airbags -

With airbags -

I haven't had the chance to drive a new Tundra, but I imagine there are some beefy frame and rear axles under that truck. It should handle the load quite well.

So maybe just run what ya got until what you got, ain't what you need.

 

[brett13]

I haven't had the chance to drive a new Tundra, but I imagine there are some beefy frame and rear axles under that truck. It should handle the load quite well.

It does. Made for towing >10k. Big 10.5" gear ring too.

So maybe just run what ya got until what you got, ain't what you need.

Well said. I'll drive it this way for a while, but it does sound like airbags is the way to go.

By the way, that T100 seems bulletproof. They look the same size as the 1st gen Tundra? And they probably have a decent payload capacity too?

 

[Another Rube]

Brett -

I'm not an expert, but my understanding is that the Toyota TRD Bilsteins are actually softer than the standard Toyota shocks - and much softer than the aftermarket Bilsteins. I think if you do a search on one of the Toyota truck sites you'll find this is the case.

- Rube