Upgrading from 3-way fridge..

[Kodachrome]

Makes sense to me. While stiffness is a virtue in some situations, the stiffness of 8 or 12 gauge wire is a PITA if you are moving the panel around.

Well, the way this new panel is going to work is that it will slide out from under the cabover when in camp mode. So it is only going to slide out two feet. So when I am driving, parked at home and not using the camper / fridge, the 85 watt panel on the roof is the only one that will be operating as it is now. The 100 watt will be in the shade of the camper and not in use.

When camping or when I deem I need it like getting ready for a trip, I will slide the panel out and have 185 watts and around 11 amps at my disposal.

 

[MakersTeleMark]

It's my understanding that you are going to want to wire your panels in series that way if one is obstructed, it won't take out the other. Electricians please correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm in the middle of a wiring project myself, but this snow isn't really conducive to getting it finished.

 

[K7MDL]

Hopefully each panel is diode isolated. If so then the idle (dark) panel is isolated and offers no help and also no load - so no problem. Each contributes it share without much regard to the other.

The heavier wire would only be needed where they combine down to the controller. As mentioned, it is not a lot of current and the voltage drop you do get will matter most when the voltage output drops in low light, which also is less because the voltage is less to start with at that point. A game of inches. Follow that one?

In series full panel assemblies will combine their voltage and at peak sunlight could exceed your charge controller rating. Some controller designs cannot efficiently chop that voltage down to your 12V, gets turned to heat. So check your ratings. Probably not a good idea to series connect different size panels or panels not designed for it, as the current from one has to flow through the other, so must be built to handle it.

 

[Kodachrome]

So I talked to AM Solar today, they said I would better off wiring the two panels individually to the one solar input rather than using the wrong gauge wire on the two panels in parallel which would require me to re-wire them all to the right gauge. So if I do this, is that series then? Is the text above referring to me wanting to wire each panel directly to the controller?

The bottom line is that I thought It was way easier to put these two panels together in order to upgrade my system, it seems impossible to do this right...I'm I missing something here?

 

[pods8]

Sounds like they want you to wire it in parallel but don't combine them till you get to the input terminal on the charge controller. From the panel to the terminal run individual wiring for each.

 

[MakersTeleMark]

If you are wiring them individually to the charge controller, then it seems like you have no problems as long as the controller is rated for the amps. Technically, the panels wouldn't be wired in parallel or series because the current from one panel isn't flowing through the other.

The recommended way sounds fine; the only drawback is that you are running nearly double the wire, which really isn't a big deal IMHO.

 

[pods8]

Technically, the panels wouldn't be wired in parallel or series because the current from one panel isn't flowing through the other.


That would actually be the definition of parallel wiring. Same circuit but different wire branches, doesn't matter if they join together at a wire running back to the charge controller or at the controller itself.

 

[MakersTeleMark]

Technically, the panels wouldn't be wired in parallel or series because the current from one panel isn't flowing through the other panel.

Not wire, who cares what happens there, as long as the CC can handle it?

Fixed for clarification.

 

[pods8]

Not wire, who cares what happens there, as long as the CC can handle it?

Fixed for clarification.


The panels are wired in parallel if the are both of their own wires but connect to the same input terminal on the charge controller. If they are each on their own wiring completely they you just need to worry about making sure that input terminal for the charge controller is rated for both. However they are still wired in parallel on that circuit.

What I was saying before is one panel not flowing the current of the other panel through it is the difference between series and parallel. Series will see the current, parallel will not. There are only two options for wiring things on the same circuit.

 

[Kodachrome]

Panel installed, the wiring took all of 20 minutes. The fabrication and installation of the sliding panel mount took an entire day, had to take the camper off and on. I will post pics later today, it works and looks great in terms of placement.

Now, I do have a couple questions regarding the Sunsaver 15 MPPT controller and remote meter:

1. How do you see what the load is? All my readout says is "ON" and then 0.00 on both the A.H. & A setting, no numbers displayed when under load.

2. How do I know this unit is set correctly for my Die Hard group 31 platinum battery? The instructions say to remove the jumper for AGM and turn the setting switch to "ON" where there actually two switches. It also gives a foot note that setpoints for an AGM battery can be set custom, how does one do that?

 

[Alley-Kat]

#1.

Unless you currently have an electrical device that is drawing juice your load will be 0.0, provided you have the charge controller wired up as per their wiring diagram. For the remote meter to read the loads, your fuse panel "main feed" needs to be connected to the charge controller, not to the battery (at least on my Morningstar charge controller).

If you're OK there, have you tried turning any 12vdc device on yet?
I can watch my fridge draw amps and then stop, then start up a little while later.

#2.

Not sure about your 2 switches, mine - model MPPT-15L has 4 switches, so I can't comment.

Morningstar has some free software that you can custom program things like custom charging setpoints and custom load control setpoints, via their MSView software and a meterbus to serial adapter cable to connect your PC to the charge controller.

At this stage I'm thinking our installations are NOT "unique" enough to require using that technology.
The factory default settings seem to be working fine for me.

 

[Kodachrome]

I figured out the 4 switches, 1 is on, jumper removed for AGM battery, switch 2 default, switch 3 to on as instructions suggest for AGM, switch 4 is off / default.

I am not sure what ATC has done in terms of main feed or directly to battery, I followed the green lead from the controller and it does not go to the fuse panel, must go directly to the battery.
Even with a load on it reads zero which explains things....might need to call Marty about the wiring since he did the install of the original controller, I would really like to get load readouts.

No way for me to connect my computers to the controller by the way, I use all macs and these companies rarely provide a Mac version of their software...

#1.

Unless you currently have an electrical device that is drawing juice your load will be 0.0, provided you have the charge controller wired up as per their wiring diagram. For the remote meter to read the loads, your fuse panel "main feed" needs to be connected to the charge controller, not to the battery (at least on my Morningstar charge controller).

If you're OK there, have you tried turning any 12vdc device on yet?
I can watch my fridge draw amps and then stop, then start up a little while later.

#2.

Not sure about your 2 switches, mine - model MPPT-15L has 4 switches, so I can't comment.

Morningstar has some free software that you can custom program things like custom charging setpoints and custom load control setpoints, via their MSView software and a meterbus to serial adapter cable to connect your PC to the charge controller.

At this stage I'm thinking our installations are NOT "unique" enough to require using that technology.
The factory default settings seem to be working fine for me.

 

[Alley-Kat]

Yes, I have an AGM battery also, so I removed the battery jumper on the Sunsaver charge controller.

- - - - - - - - -

OK, 4 switches, here's how I set mine...

#1 ON, I've got an AGM battery.
#2 OFF, I wanted the higher Low Voltage Disconnect (LVD) / Reconnect (LVR) settings of LVD = 11.5, LVR = 12.6
#3 ON, as I wanted the Auto-Equalization to happen every 28 days.
#4 OFF, as I'm also using the Morningstar Remote Meter.

- - - - - - - - -

Here's the drawing I have in my Sunsaver charge controller instructions...

The 3rd (+. Positive) and 4th (-, Negative) terminals positions (from the left) are the connections to the battery, big circle with a "2" in it (whatever the color of the wires are in your installation is unique to your setup).


Do you have anything wired up to the 5th (+. Positive) & 6th (-. Negative) terminal positions (from the left) on your Sunsaver charge controller?

That's the big circle with a "1" in it.

The drawing above shows where the battery jumper used to be located, connecting the 6th & 7th terminals together.

These are the connections to your loads or what should be the fuse panel before the loads.

If there is nothing on the 5th & 6th terminals of the charge controller then you need to locate the main feed (both + & -) to the fuse panel and trace it to wherever it goes, remove it, and wire the fuse panel up to the charge controller (like the light bulb in the drawing in the charge controller instructions).

Your fuse panel not only acts to protect your wiring, but probably also acts like a distribution panel, with the wires leaving the fuse panel going to the various 12vdc devices.

The charge controller will need to "see" the loads, before it can send any of that info to your remote meter.

 

[Kodachrome]

Ok, this makes sense, there is nothing on terminal 5&6, I will call Marty at ATC tomorrow to confirm all this since I am not the best at wiring...

Yes, I have an AGM battery also, so I removed the battery jumper on the Sunsaver charge controller.

- - - - - - - - -

OK, 4 switches, here's how I set mine...

#1 ON, I've got an AGM battery.
#2 OFF, I wanted the higher Low Voltage Disconnect (LVD) / Reconnect (LVR) settings of LVD = 11.5, LVR = 12.6
#3 ON, as I wanted the Auto-Equalization to happen every 28 days.
#4 OFF, as I'm also using the Morningstar Remote Meter.

- - - - - - - - -

Here's the drawing I have in my Sunsaver charge controller instructions...

The 3rd (+. Positive) and 4th (-, Negative) terminals positions (from the left) are the connections to the battery, big circle with a "2" in it (whatever the color of the wires are in your installation is unique to your setup).


Do you have anything wired up to the 5th (+. Positive) & 6th (-. Negative) terminal positions (from the left) on your Sunsaver charge controller?

That's the big circle with a "1" in it.

The drawing above shows where the battery jumper used to be located, connecting the 6th & 7th terminals together.

These are the connections to your loads or what should be the fuse panel before the loads.

If there is nothing on the 5th & 6th terminals of the charge controller then you need to locate the main feed (both + & -) to the fuse panel and trace it to wherever it goes, remove it, and wire the fuse panel up to the charge controller (like the light bulb in the drawing in the charge controller instructions).

Your fuse panel not only acts to protect your wiring, but probably also acts like a distribution panel, with the wires leaving the fuse panel going to the various 12vdc devices.

The charge controller will need to "see" the loads, before it can send any of that info to your remote meter.

 

[leadsled9]

Panel installed, the wiring took all of 20 minutes. The fabrication and installation of the sliding panel mount took an entire day, had to take the camper off and on. I will post pics later today, it works and looks great in terms of placement.

Now, I do have a couple questions regarding the Sunsaver 15 MPPT controller and remote meter:

1. How do you see what the load is? All my readout says is "ON" and then 0.00 on both the A.H. & A setting, no numbers displayed when under load.

2. How do I know this unit is set correctly for my Die Hard group 31 platinum battery? The instructions say to remove the jumper for AGM and turn the setting switch to "ON" where there actually two switches. It also gives a foot note that setpoints for an AGM battery can be set custom, how does one do that?


1) If you simply set up your system the way I did....you installed the panel....then hooked the two wires from the panel to your charge controller....then ran two wires from the charge controller to your battery. You probably didn't install anything on your "Load" terminals at the charge controller. I didn't install anything at the the "Load" termianals either.

The remote meter works like this....the center button scrolls through several different parts of your system to monitor. The first positiion is the panel....it will only show what the panel is putting out, regardless of pressing the forward or back arrow keys.

The second position will monitor your "Battery" (note the little battery icon at the bottom)...and by using the forward and back arrows you can see the battery voltage, amp hours captured since the last reset, min voltage, max voltage, and watts being used currently.

Then another press of the center button and you will be monitoring "load". Since you didn't attach anything to the "load" terminals....you get all zeros. No problem.

Then another press of the center button and you will see the "Temperature" displays. Attached is a map showing how this works.

2) Simply remove the jumper and set the switch to "ON" and no worries. You don't need any custom set points as the MorningStar controller will have the perfect settings for your Sears PM1 group 31 battery.



View attachment Morningstar SunSaver MPPT Meter Map.pdf

 

[leadsled9]

Ok, this makes sense, there is nothing on terminal 5&6, I will call Marty at ATC tomorrow to confirm all this since I am not the best at wiring...




There doesn't need to be anything on terminals 5 and 6 ("Load"). The camper is probably wired so the battery feeds the main control panel and the main control panel takes care of all of the fusing etc. to all of the other circuits.

You simply added a solar panel to keep your battery up to snuff.....not do anything with the way your camper was wired from the factory.

You are overthinking this entire set up.

 

[Kodachrome]

There doesn't need to be anything on terminals 5 and 6 ("Load"). The camper is probably wired so the battery feeds the main control panel and the main control panel takes care of all of the fusing etc. to all of the other circuits.

You simply added a solar panel to keep your battery up to snuff.....not do anything with the way your camper was wired from the factory.

You are overthinking this entire set up.


I always over think things I am not sure about...

In any case, I am going to talk to Marty to be sure what the main feed leads are going to the fuse box because I want to be able to see the load being placed on the system, ie, fridge, heater, etc. I can't currently do that with the existing wiring in the camper from the fuse box to the controller the way that it was wired to the original controller.

 

[leadsled9]

I always over think things I am not sure about...

In any case, I am going to talk to Marty to be sure what the main feed leads are going to the fuse box because I want to be able to see the load being placed on the system, ie, fridge, heater, etc. I can't currently do that with the existing wiring in the camper from the fuse box to the controller the way that it was wired to the original controller.


I realize that this is confusing. The solar system simply charges and maintains your camper battery. It doesn't interact with your main electrical system in any other way. Your main electrical system of your camper will continue to function exactly as before you added the solar system.

The "load" monitoring done by the remote meter was never meant to monitor the individual loads placed on your main electircal system. The "load" monitoring of the remote meter only monitors the "Load" terminals (5 & 6) off of the charge controller. Since you have nothing connected to those terminals....it basically monitors nothing.

You can use the remote meter to get an idea of the different loads by using the "battery" (battery icon) monitor like this. Press the center button and stop on the "battery" icon. Use the arrow keys to position on the watts. You can now turn off/on different electical loads and see how much the watts vary and get a ballpark idea of how many watts the electrical component is using.


For example lets say your watts displayed are 15 watts.....so you have 15 watts charging your battery. Then you turn on the interior lights and see that the watts displayed shows 20 watts. The additional 5 watts are being supplied to run your lights. Then you turn on the fans....and the watts reads 27 watts....the additional 7 watts are being used to run the fan etc.

 

[K7MDL]

One reason to not shift your entire fuse panel and all it's loads to a small solar charge controller, it is probably not rated for all the loads you may need at any one time, worst case.

If you do elect to use the load terminals ( and is rated to handle your loads), be careful of where your truck charging feed is at. It is usually somewhere between the battery and fuse panel, perhaps an isolation relay in the middle. You could end up connecting the controller load terminals directly to your battery! Not only will the readings be confusing, it might break something also.

I would leave the load terminals disconnecvted. Get a "Whatt-meter" or ammeter shunt and voltmeter to monitor your main load current.

 

[leadsled9]

I would leave the load terminals disconnecvted. Get a "Whatt-meter" or ammeter shunt and voltmeter to monitor your main load current.


This is great advise. The maximum for your controllers "load" terminals is a mere 15 amps.