Where to Put Victron Solar Stuff?

[MountainSufi]

Aloha from Jackson Hole!

I'm going to have Jackson Hole FWC professionally put in a solar system for me.

I've got a 2017 Fleet side dinette, which means the batteries are in a cramped space in the bench underneath the foot of the bed.

I'll be installing a 160 watt Overland flexible panel (very efficient). Getting rid of 12 v. Exide gel mats and subbing in two 6 volters. Accouterments will be the new Victron BatteryProtect 12/24V-65A, Victron BMV-712 Battery Monitor, and the Victron SmartSolar MPPT 100/30 Solar Charge Controller 100V 30A with Bluetooth . A dream system. OUCH, this will involve changing wiring from Zamp friendly to Victron ready.

DAMN, that Victron controller is BIG (130X186X70 mm). And heavy (1.3 kg). From discussions here, I know the controller should be "as close as possible to the batteries." I loathe placing it on the backrest of the bench. Perhaps the vertical wall in front of the batteries? Or perhaps moving it a few feet left next to the water/terrible battery monitor currently in place? (where the Victron BMV will go?; is that close enough to be Zen?

Where have you mounted your Victron stuff? Are you happy? What would you do differently? Pictures appreciated.

Thankx!

 

[Vic Harder]

That IS a big controller, both physically and in its specifications. Are you planning on adding more solar down the road?

I mounted all my stuff onto a piece of plywood (like SolarBob), then stuffed it into the battery compartment. If I have to work on it, I pull out the whole board.

Guages

Stuff mounted on board

Board stuffed into battery box

 

[rando]

Agree with Vic (as usual) - that is a way oversized charge controller unless you are planning on adding a ton more solar in the future. The 75/15 would be fine for your current setup, and the 75/20 would allow for future upgrade up to at least 290W of solar. the 100/30 is rated for at least 440W of solar. The real limit to these controllers is the panel short circuit current (Isc) - you can over panel as long as you don't exceed the max Isc for the controller.


What is your goal with this work?

There is no magic sauce to the overland solar panels - they are using SunPower Maxeon cells like many other panel manufacturers and contrary to the claims on other threads here won't provide any more power than other similarly rated panels. The 'higher efficiency' just means the panel is slightly smaller in physical size for the same output power, not that is produces any more power.

In terms of mounting, all my electronics are also mounted to a plywood panel that sits on top of my battery. Everything is connected with quick connects so you can disconnect and pull the whole panel to work on it or rejigger, which I seem to do all to frequently.

 

[ckent323]

I did the same as Vic and Rando and used a plywood board. I did mount the solar controller on a metal plate.

Everything is mounted to a plywood panel that is under the roll over couch next to the two 6 V batteries. It is easy to see it and it slides into place on the inner wall of the floor pack so it is easily removable to work on.

Thee are pictures of the install in my gallery

 

[MountainSufi]

Hey gang! Howdy from snowy Jackson Hole!

Yup, it's a big ass controller. I bought it only because I'm a rank solar newbie & Denny at JHFWC suggested a 30 amp controller; he's elsewhere until early March & I'm just getting some of the kit lined up; I have doubts he's done much Victron work; he wanted ME to buy this stuff so he wouldn't be responsible...). HEY gang, I may be wrong but this controller does have that bitchin' bluetooth app important for a plug-n-play neophyte like me: I barely know which probe of my voltmeter to stick up a butt! I'm dumb.

I need energy to power a CPAP & furnace fan overnight. Overland Solar told me on the phone ONE of their new 160 flexible watt panels will suffice because it's so efficient, but I foresee a 2 way fridge also sucking juice. If I need more I guess I'll have headroom to throw up a 2nd. Hmmmm... mebbe hot water someday? On second thought, I'm gonna start with two 160 watt panels because of this thread.

I greatly honor your advice, and appreciate pictures. I'll definitely provide a plywood scrap to mount stuff on top of the batteries (replacing the I presume needless screw-on hatch cover).

QUESTION: Looking at Vic's pictured array of guages I can't help but ask in fright, "Do I need separate controllers and monitors for each stinkin' 6 volt battery?

Aren't you glad I didn't try to do this project solo, by scratch???

When any of you buckaroos pass thru Jackson Hole, you've got a BBQ steak & beer awaiting!

 

[veryactivelife]

As we all agree, it’s a big piece of equipment, but that’s what I have to go with 2 160 watt panels plus a portable 79 watt. It might be a bit overkill since all these panels probably won’t be putting out full tilt at the same time. But, I wanted the ability to add more to the roof if my needs change.

As to location of the controller, they recommend close to the batteries in order for the controller to know the batteries temperature. You can add the Victron battery temperature sensor to your BMV 712 and the BMV will network with the controller to give it the temperature state. You can buy this as a bundle the 712 and potentially save a little money.

 

[Karlton]

Howdy - Vic's set-up is a thing of beauty. There is a very long thread Vic started with a lot of detail on solar installation.

I was a complete neophyte with solar, but Vic, Rando, Craig, and others gave me some great tips!

I have a solar wiring diagram for my 2017 front dinette Hawk that is more simple than Vic's set-up and it is shown in the thread below in post #13.

http://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/topic/16154-solar-wiring-discovery-2017-hawk/

Go Pokes!

 

[Vic Harder]

@Karlton - I blush!

I have two controllers because I have two solar arrays - on the roof and at the end of 100' of wire for my portable deployments. Both are running in serial mode to reduce voltage loss. Karlton did NOT, because his panels are wired in parallel.

 

[ckent323]

Mountainsufi,

You only need one solar controller as long as the combined panels have a maximum open circuit voltage that is less than the max voltage that the controller will accept and the combined current of all your panels does not exceed the max current of the controller (and even then you would probably not damage it but you would lose the over the limit power).

For your Victron 100/30 controller you can use 24 v panels or 12 v panels. The max open circuit voltage that controller will accommodate is 100 v and the max current capacity is 30 A.

The 160 watt SunpowerGen III semi flexible panel has a 26 V oc (open current) and 7.12 A sc (short circuit). Based on the specs the Victron 100/30 controller should be able to handle up to three of these.

My guess is that you probably don't need more than two of these panels.

Regards,

Craig

 

[ckent323]

Additional info from the Victron manual:

Installation
● Protect the solar modules from direct light during installation, e.g. cover them.
● Never touch uninsulated cable ends.
● Use only insulated tools.
● Connections must always be made in the sequence described in section 3.5.
● The installer of the product must provide a means for cable strain relief to prevent the transmission of stress to the connections.
● Provide a means to disconnect all current-carrying conductors of a photovoltaic power source from all other conductors in a building or other structure

Cable connection sequence (cover the solar panels first)
First: connect the battery.
Second: connect the solar array (when connected with reverse polarity, the controller will heat up but will not charge the battery

General
● Mount vertically on a non-flammable substrate, with the power terminals facing downwards. Observe a minimum clearance of 10 cm under and above the product for optimal cooling.
● Mount close to the battery, but never directly above the battery (in order to prevent damage due to gassing of the battery).
● Improper internal temperature compensation (e.g. ambient condition battery and charger not within 5°C) can lead to reduced battery lifetime

 

[MountainSufi]

Thankx to all for the info!

Damn. Even solar plug-n-play isn't as easy as screwing in a lightbulb. But I'm trying to get it as close as possible. I've contacted FWCJH asking if I should also provide plywood mount and quick connects for Victron stuff I've ordered, and what size if they don't.

cken323: the info you passed on in "General" from the Victron manual is impossible, but thankx for sharing:
General
● Mount vertically on a non-flammable substrate, with the power terminals facing downwards. Observe a minimum clearance of 10 cm under and above the product for optimal cooling. FWC can't do this in our cramped quarters, and I don't blame'em.
● Mount close to the battery, but never directly above the battery (in order to prevent damage due to gassing of the battery.
But I'm used to impractical lawyer-ese. Hell, even FWC doesn't comply.

BBQ when any of you visit Jackson Hole!

UPDATE: Denny of Jackson Hole FWC mounted the controller where the solar leads from roof and back wall came out. On my side dinette Fleet, it was in the cabinet by the sink. Other stuff wedged nicely just outside the chock full battery compartment, yet undercover. Those 2 new 6 volt gell batteries very, very tightly fill the battery compartment.

 

[MountainSufi]

Took a nice vacation down to Valley of the Gods, UT. Victron bluetooth guidance all the way. 160 watt panel & two 6 volt gel batteries. Running a CPAP @ night, sometimes with heater fan & 2 way fridge, I never got below 94% capacity in the morning. I have room for another 160 watt panel on top, but doubt I'll need it.

I love Victron bluetooth, & love Vic H. for recommending expensivo Victron, and love myself for for taking Vic's costlier advice.

You WANT Victron bluetooth. I suppose I should learn intricacies of power draws, amp hours, etc. But I don't seem to need it; simply reading the % power left gives me confidence and "currently" all I need.

Sweet warm dreams in our FWC's

 

[buckland]

Appreciate this thread as I just tore out my 2 AGM batteries and will replace with Rando's LiFePo4 battery. It's ready and I have been playing with the portable panel and the Victron 100 / 20 (bluetooth). For an electrical novice it has been a real learning exoerience and the iPhone Victron App is great for seeing what is happening. My Battery box is the standard Eagle 2011 size and the second was in a separate battery box (which will now be storage space) .

I too was concerned about placement. I have the same Blue Sea battery separator, 1 Victron controller, a shunt, and a terminal block. Getting the tight placement is tricky in a limited place. Just how bad is it to mount the controller (with lots of room around it) but horizontally? That is the only way I can get it in the box!

 

[Vic Harder]

Appreciate this thread as I just tore out my 2 AGM batteries and will replace with Rando's LiFePo4 battery. It's ready and I have been playing with the portable panel and the Victron 100 / 20 (bluetooth). For an electrical novice it has been a real learning exoerience and the iPhone Victron App is great for seeing what is happening. My Battery box is the standard Eagle 2011 size and the second was in a separate battery box (which will now be storage space) .

I too was concerned about placement. I have the same Blue Sea battery separator, 1 Victron controller, a shunt, and a terminal block. Getting the tight placement is tricky in a limited place. Just how bad is it to mount the controller (with lots of room around it) but horizontally? That is the only way I can get it in the box!

Horizontal "should" be fine, but what does the manufacturer say about that?

 

[buckland]

All they say is mount vertically... must be so the heat fins in back radiate upwards. I will try another spot to see if it will fit that way.

 

[buckland]

Came up with a slide in mount for the battery box vertical mounting of the Victron.

 

[Vic Harder]

Nicely done.

 

[Norsman]

Took a nice vacation down to Valley of the Gods, UT. Victron bluetooth guidance all the way. 160 watt panel & two 6 volt gel batteries. Running a CPAP @ night, sometimes with heater fan & 2 way fridge, I never got below 94% capacity in the morning. I have room for another 160 watt panel on top, but doubt I'll need it.

I love Victron bluetooth, & love Vic H. for recommending expensivo Victron, and love myself for for taking Vic's costlier advice.

You WANT Victron bluetooth. I suppose I should learn intricacies of power draws, amp hours, etc. But I don't seem to need it; simply reading the % power left gives me confidence and "currently" all I need.

Sweet warm dreams in our FWC's

Speaking of % power used, at what point and using what metric do you decide to stop using the battery to prevent damage? I have the same setup, 160w panel, overland charge controller, victron solar and battery monitor and two 6 volt batteries that have about 223 amp hours each... for a total combines amp hours of 223.

So do you use the battery until 1/2 amp hours are used, voltage less than 12.2 or something like that?

 

[Vic Harder]

Speaking of % power used, at what point and using what metric do you decide to stop using the battery to prevent damage? I have the same setup, 160w panel, overland charge controller, victron solar and battery monitor and two 6 volt batteries that have about 223 amp hours each... for a total combines amp hours of 223.

So do you use the battery until 1/2 amp hours are used, voltage less than 12.2 or something like that?

Have you seen the graphs indicating expected battery cycles (charge-discharge-charge) and depth of discharge? Basically, the less deep you go, the longer they live (this is true for FLA and AGM lead-acid batteries).

I aim for 60% as my "bottom" with my 250AH battery bank. Have only hit that three times in 3 years, and only because I wanted to (testing). At this rate, my batteries will last over 1000 cycles, so another 1000 years.

Voltage isn't helpful as so much depends on the draw at the time. AH used is a better measure by far.