15 replies to this topic

[auser]

New user, first time poster.

 

I'm very close to purchasing a Hawk Flatbed, but have some hesitations. I'm hoping other FWC owners can confirm or allay my fears. Our current rig is a Ram Promaster campervan - its just about perfect, except for the lack of four wheel drive and no dinette (we both work on the road, so having a table for laptops will be a huge improvement).

 

Here are the reasons I've not yet pulled the trigger (there are a bunch - I've tried to provide some detail as to why I care). 

 

1.  Condensation:  How often, if ever, does the pop-up canvas get soggy from condensation? I read a post somewhere about a guy that wipes up moisture in the morning from all the canvas surfaces, AND under his MATTRESS. Is that really a thing? Does the insulation layer / winter package help?

 

2.  Specific flatbed question: How annoying is it to get in and out of a flatbed? The scissor steps seem like they take up a lot of space (first step is far from the side of the truck), but my dog can't use a ladder. Is the entrance / exit as annoying as I imagine? Is there some magic solution I'm not thinking of?

 

3.  Fuel economy:  The Promaster gets 17-18 mpg cruising around the CO mountains. With a Ram 2500 or F-250, plus flatbed camper, am I going to get 10 mph? Any real world numbers out there? Anyone have experience with a chip/programmer for a large truck, and is this worth looking into? For what it's worth, this is not at all a commuter vehicle. 

 

4. Setup / tear down:  The van's setup time is zero. Park the van, grab beer, turn on stove / heater / lights / whatever. People are talking about 5 minute setup times with their FWCs. Really, five minutes? For weekend warriors, perhaps that's ok, but we stay out for weeks at a time. I think a long setup would really get old. The flatbed should help, since we won't have to set up our bed - is it really still 5 minutes?

 

5.  Outside latches on the camper roof:  My wife is petite - there is no way she will be able to reach the roof latches without a ladder. I think we'll have to haul around a ladder for the latches, AND some kind of dog friendly step contraption to get in and out of the camper. Any super clever ideas (latch extensions)? This is probably where a lot of the setup time comes from.

 

6.  Bikes:  I know this depends on the actual truck flatbed, but what are the chances of using a rear hitch mounted bike rack? I'm wondering, with the camper radius kinda sticking out, whether the bikes will fit on a hitch style tray rack. Anyone have pictures? Other solutions (not front hitch)?

 

7. Soft side questions:  The van, since it has hard sides, is super snug and warm, even in really cold weather or really high wind. How loud / cold / precarious feeling is sleeping in the FWC when the weather is horrible? Is it reasonable to use this thing in the winter with the heater cranking, or can you simply not keep the space warm when its 0 degrees outside? 

 

Thanks for reading this far - I appreciate all your input.

-adam

 

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[munchmeister]

Can't answer these as I am a new FWC Raven shell owner, small by the flatbed standards. Color me green with envy. Those flatbeds are nice, especially that dinette. But as for popping up the roof, it takes no time at all, just some oomph. If you have the gas struts, I've read they help quite a bit. The latches work very easily and other threads discuss some kind of music speaker elevator crank that folks use inside to raise the popup. Basically a couple of plastic poles with a crank/gears in the middle. I don't know anything about those, just that somewhere there is a thread about them.

 

Ladder: I'm shopping for one of the collapsible ladders. The latches work very easily once you can reach them. You need a stool and you might kill two birds by buying a step stool and use that for getting in and out of the camper, as well as reaching the latches, but I know things are high on the flatbed. A step stool might be an issue for your dogs. These ladders seem to stow pretty small. I'm evaluating online now. Amazon has 'em: https://www.amazon.c...d=1AAGUZ9J1Y84C So does Home Depot, Lowes, Tractor Supply but all seem to order them in my neck of the woods. YMMV.

 

As for dogs, I have two small chihuahua/rat terrier rescues, one has a bad hip, can't jump very high so I plan on building a simple ramp out of plywood, fold in the middle, old carpet stapled on one side for grip. Fold it and stow in the camper.

 

Bikes: challenging for the flatbed. You could have them mount some front wheel quick release mounts on the back of the truck at a point where they would ride well. Just an idea. 

 

Gas mileage: My Ford F-150, 5.4 Triton dropped from 16 to 14 with VERY conservative driving, 63 MPH average according to my GPS. I've always had a very, very light foot when driving but that comes from being a 100 mile per day commuter for ~25 years.

 

Hope this helps. Probably many other replies to come regarding your other questions.

[DavidGraves]

Howdy

 

We used a high top Dodge camper van for years and traveled Newfoundland to Mexico......there is absolutely no better way to go if you use and enjoy the attributes you have described.

 

Stick with it.

 

David Graves 

[gaylon]

Let's see what I can do to help answer a few of these.  I have a traditional hawk, in a 2016 Tundra TRD Pro.

 

1.  Condensation:  How often, if ever, does the pop-up canvas get soggy from condensation? I read a post somewhere about a guy that wipes up moisture in the morning from all the canvas surfaces, AND under his MATTRESS. Is that really a thing? Does the insulation layer / winter package help?  When it is very cold, with two large dogs and my wife and I, there will be condensation.  I have never had any under the mattress, but there is some on the roof.  I have the winter / thermal pack and I think this helps, but when you exhale you put out a lot of water and if the walls are cold - it is going to collect.  I am surprised you have never noticed any in the van.

 

2.  Specific flatbed question: How annoying is it to get in and out of a flatbed? The scissor steps seem like they take up a lot of space (first step is far from the side of the truck), but my dog can't use a ladder. Is the entrance / exit as annoying as I imagine? Is there some magic solution I'm not thinking of?  I have looked at a number of flat beds and I find the side entrance to be quite reasonable, but it is high.  You will need something.  Scissor steps do seem the easiest, i never noticed a large amount of space between the first step and the camper...  On my traditional hawk, I use little giant step stool.  The dogs go up it no problem. 

 

3.  Fuel economy:  The Promaster gets 17-18 mpg cruising around the CO mountains. With a Ram 2500 or F-250, plus flatbed camper, am I going to get 10 mph? Any real world numbers out there? Anyone have experience with a chip/programmer for a large truck, and is this worth looking into? For what it's worth, this is not at all a commuter vehicle.  All I can say on this is that my Tundra gets 13.5 without the camper and about 11.5 with.

 

4. Setup / tear down:  The van's setup time is zero. Park the van, grab beer, turn on stove / heater / lights / whatever. People are talking about 5 minute setup times with their FWCs. Really, five minutes? For weekend warriors, perhaps that's ok, but we stay out for weeks at a time. I think a long setup would really get old. The flatbed should help, since we won't have to set up our bed - is it really still 5 minutes?  It takes a couple minutes to pop the top - not five but more than one.  Other than that, how much set up depends on how you store stuff while on the road.  We take a couple minutes to unload an action packer (usually carrying firewood) and then a couple to set up the inside.  If we were on only highway it would be less of a concern, but we always end up off road and we set up to handle a high amount of angular movement.

 

5.  Outside latches on the camper roof:  My wife is petite - there is no way she will be able to reach the roof latches without a ladder. I think we'll have to haul around a ladder for the latches, AND some kind of dog friendly step contraption to get in and out of the camper. Any super clever ideas (latch extensions)? This is probably where a lot of the setup time comes from.  At 5'9", I can reach all latches just fine.  If I was shorter, I could stand in the doorways of the truck to get the side and front ones and on the rear bumper to get the rear ones. 

 

6.  Bikes:  I know this depends on the actual truck flatbed, but what are the chances of using a rear hitch mounted bike rack? I'm wondering, with the camper radius kinda sticking out, whether the bikes will fit on a hitch style tray rack. Anyone have pictures? Other solutions (not front hitch)?  I have seen bike racks on the back of flatbed campers, both hitch mounted and mounted using the jack mounts (running a frame work of some sort across the back of the camper).

 

7. Soft side questions:  The van, since it has hard sides, is super snug and warm, even in really cold weather or really high wind. How loud / cold / precarious feeling is sleeping in the FWC when the weather is horrible? Is it reasonable to use this thing in the winter with the heater cranking, or can you simply not keep the space warm when its 0 degrees outside?  I love sleeping in the camper in bad weather - the rain sounds awesome on the roof and there is zero chance the top will collapse.

 

Good luck!

[smlobx]

A couple of comments in no particular order...

If you like the van life have you considered a Mercedes van. They are available with 4WD.
The condensation issue may be due to the smaller volume of a truck camper. The set up time is not 5 minutes. The biggest difference I would think in going from a van to a camper is the inability to get to the living quarters without going outside. For us this was a big issue but ultimately went with a truck camper anyway in order to be able to get more off-road.
If you do go the truck camper and your finances allow it get a diesel. I get 15-16 mpg with the camper on.

What ever you do enjoy the ride!

[Durango1]

Comments in CAPS

New user, first time poster.

 

I'm very close to purchasing a Hawk Flatbed, but have some hesitations. I'm hoping other FWC owners can confirm or allay my fears. Our current rig is a Ram Promaster campervan - its just about perfect, except for the lack of four wheel drive and no dinette (we both work on the road, so having a table for laptops will be a huge improvement).

 

Here are the reasons I've not yet pulled the trigger (there are a bunch - I've tried to provide some detail as to why I care). 

 

1.  Condensation:  How often, if ever, does the pop-up canvas get soggy from condensation? I read a post somewhere about a guy that wipes up moisture in the morning from all the canvas surfaces, AND under his MATTRESS. Is that really a thing? Does the insulation layer / winter package help?  AT LEAST HERE IN THE FAIRLY DRY SOUTHWEST NOT A HUGE ISSUE. ON COLD MORNINGS WE DO WIPE DOWN WHERE THE (COLDER) ROOF STRUTS. THE LINER HELPS... A BIT.

 

2.  Specific flatbed question: How annoying is it to get in and out of a flatbed? The scissor steps seem like they take up a lot of space (first step is far from the side of the truck), but my dog can't use a ladder. Is the entrance / exit as annoying as I imagine? Is there some magic solution I'm not thinking of? WE DIDN'T GO WITH THE SCISSOR STEPS ON THE FB. I FIND THEM ANNOYING TO PUT ON AND OFF. BUT USING A MODIFIED STEP LADDER IS NOT AN ISSUE FOR US NOT-SO-AGILE 60 YEAR OLDS.

 

3.  Fuel economy:  The Promaster gets 17-18 mpg cruising around the CO mountains. With a Ram 2500 or F-250, plus flatbed camper, am I going to get 10 mph? Any real world numbers out there? Anyone have experience with a chip/programmer for a large truck, and is this worth looking into? For what it's worth, this is not at all a commuter vehicle.  MY 2012 2500 RAM WITH THE HEMI GETS 13-14 ON THE HIGHWAY.

 

4. Setup / tear down:  The van's setup time is zero. Park the van, grab beer, turn on stove / heater / lights / whatever. People are talking about 5 minute setup times with their FWCs. Really, five minutes? For weekend warriors, perhaps that's ok, but we stay out for weeks at a time. I think a long setup would really get old. The flatbed should help, since we won't have to set up our bed - is it really still 5 minutes? HAVEN'T TIMED IT BUT REALLY FAST. THE STRUTS HELP. 

 

5.  Outside latches on the camper roof:  My wife is petite - there is no way she will be able to reach the roof latches without a ladder. I think we'll have to haul around a ladder for the latches, AND some kind of dog friendly step contraption to get in and out of the camper. Any super clever ideas (latch extensions)? This is probably where a lot of the setup time comes from. WE USE A L-SHAPED HOOK EXTENSION FROM A BBQ GRILL. SIOUX DOES THE  FRONT HINGES FROM THE CAB. EASY.

 

6.  Bikes:  I know this depends on the actual truck flatbed, but what are the chances of using a rear hitch mounted bike rack? I'm wondering, with the camper radius kinda sticking out, whether the bikes will fit on a hitch style tray rack. Anyone have pictures? Other solutions (not front hitch)? WITH AN EXTENDER YOU COULD DO IT.

 

7. Soft side questions:  The van, since it has hard sides, is super snug and warm, even in really cold weather or really high wind. How loud / cold / precarious feeling is sleeping in the FWC when the weather is horrible? Is it reasonable to use this thing in the winter with the heater cranking, or can you simply not keep the space warm when its 0 degrees outside?  I LOSE THE CAMPING BUG AROUND 20 DEGREES. IF YOU ARE A SERIOUS 4 SEASON CAMPER I WOULD STAY WITH HARD SIDES.

 

Thanks for reading this far - I appreciate all your input.

-adam

 

--

 

All of that said, Adam, we love our FB Hawk. At the risk of ticking off a lot of slide in folks the perceived space and ergonomic improvements of a FB are huge. However, for my next build I'm wavering between a FB Grandby on a F-350 chassis cab (impeccable build quality) or the same with an ATC (much more customization) or a (wait for it) a Mercedes SWB 4WD Sprinter build!

 

Given what you are looking for and if you don't want to do serious 4WD I'd look at the Sprinter. My neighbor did a 4WD Sprinter build and has taken it into some pretty serious 4WD stuff here in SW Colorado.

 

Best wishes,

Steve

Edited by Durango1, 04 June 2017 - 03:29 AM.

[dharte]

My 2 cents:
I have not had big issues with condensation (never any moisture under the mattress) in my Hawk, but I always keep windows cracked and a roof vent slightly open. My mom's VW Westfalia van (I call it the "will fail ya") has just as much condensation.
My truck is a diesel and my tuner makes a big difference in power and a slight improvement in mileage(1-2mpg's). If you tune your new rig be sure to monitor egt's. I don't use the extreme tunes, just the "tow safe" one. It really does make a big difference in the overall driving experience.
If I could do it again, I would have sold my truck and gone the flatbed route. Maybe some day.....

[ski3pin]

Howdy

 

We used a high top Dodge camper van for years and traveled Newfoundland to Mexico......there is absolutely no better way to go if you use and enjoy the attributes you have described.

 

Stick with it.

 

David Graves 

 

"Our current rig is a Ram Promaster campervan - its just about perfect, except for the lack of four wheel drive and no dinette (we both work on the road, so having a table for laptops will be a huge improvement)."

 

All the issues you are concerned about can be dealt with, and we all do. You know the camper van life and, as you say, it's just about perfect. Stick with that and move over to something with 4x4 and a dinette table arrangement you need.  We choose a 4x4 truck and small camper because it does a great job taking us to the places we explore. Having used it extensively in all kinds of conditions, we put up with it's idiosyncrasies.

[Espresso]

Stick with your van or move to a more classic style motorhome.  It sounds like a better choice for your life/work style.

[W6USA]

Adam-

Most of your concerns have already been covered...

 

But to add to your condensation questions, the current "canvas" sides that you asked if it could get soggy...no.  It's not canvas, it's a vinyl coated fabric and does not soak up any moisture.  You would just wipe off any moisture quickly with a towel and it's then bone dry.

 

As mentioned, leaving some vents open helps.  I've found in our dry air here in the southwest, there is no issue with condensation...but go to a humid area and it happens.  So, condensation depends on several factors and may not happen at all. 

 

If you are considering a late-model diesel truck, they get better fuel mileage than 5-year old or older models.  There are many issues with the newer diesels of tuners/programmers causing check engine lights and other issues.   The EPA was/is really cracking down on companies offering such tuners for the late model trucks due to emissions violations.