54 replies to this topic

[ski3pin]

We have a respectful and knowledgeable group that follows topics like this on Wander the West. If we could, lets take the discussion forward. We want the Racetrack unmolested and vandals eliminated. But how do we get there? Visitor numbers will continue to rise. The Racetrack has gotten much press lately. It is hardly a secret.

 

So if we care about the place, how do we save it?

 

What would we be wiling to give up? What are changes we would accept if it would stop/prevent damage and preserve the place?

[SunMan]

Good questions, but with so many thousands of square miles to protect in DV I don't see what can be done other than gating and creating controlled day use only access (gasp) but what then with Lippencott? Signage already exists warning not to drive on the playa or walk on it when wet. I suspect it won't be long before the Racetrack gets fenced in. Even that wont stop people from stealing rocks (or defacing them), unfortunately the remoteness of the location, which is what most of us love, is what allows it to happen.

Far too many of my favorite places are being "loved to death" these days. A term I've stolen from a Big Sur blog which documents it quite well. We hardly go there anymore as it is so over run, even mid-week.

https://bigsurkate.w...o-death-photos/

[DesertDave]

I visited Death Valley frequently in the 90's, when it was a National Monument and before the National Park designation.  I didn't see such things back then, and the lack of tracks and trash tended to keep them from appearing in the first place.

 

I remember the gushing articles in the local paper when it became a National Park - someone would think the place had just been created out of vacuum, as if it had never existed before!  I cannot help but think that the increased publicity had to dramatically increase the visitation.  Even if the percentage of irresponsible people doesn't change, the sheer increase in total numbers has an effect.

[craig333]

If it comes to it, I'd rather try using rocks than a fence. A few high profile arrests might help but you'd really have to get lucky to catch someone. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe landmines?

[ETAV8R]

Great discussion here. Landmines and gallows are optimum choices.

 

On one of the first few visits I had done to DV, my friend took me to see some petroglyphs. I was taking pictures and he made it very clear that if I chose to post the location of those petroglyphs there would never be another invitation to see any of the great places he knew about. Since then we have explored some amazing places in and out of DVNP. I kept that promise and his statement hit home and made good sense to me. Sharing information about sacred/special/unique sights and finds out in the wild is something not to be done carelessly.

 

In later years an acquaintance, who would end up starting his own website/forum about the adventures which could be had in America, posted a detailed trip report on his blog about Brigs (misspelled on purpose). I sent a PM asking if he would reconsider posting the specifics of the area. The answer I received was a blatant NO. He feels it is ok to post so much information on the internet. I fear the day that for whatever reason we lose that special place. He may actually be on this forum now due to his recent acquisition of a FWC.

 

I made a comment in the thread mentioned in the first post. I don't find it far fetched to have cameras located in specific places which could be threatened by bad human behavior. The retort was that it would be more cost effective to have rangers 24/7 in those locations. Since there is no use to having vehicles on the playa, a barrier of boulders seems like a good start. More of a natural barrier instead of an unsightly fence. One time leaving Saline at the top of North Pass a law enforcement ranger and I were talking while I aired back up. Lippencott came up and he said a huge rock/boulder at each end would stop all the problems the NPS has with Lippencott. Needless to say his comment did not go over well with me but I didn't bother making any more of it.

 

I think part of the problem is the huge rise in the interest of "overlanding" or "expedition" style vehicles. There have always been 4X4 groups. Most of the ones that have a long history also have a history of protecting/improving the areas of interest for those groups. People now go on forums and see builds and trip reports of places which inspire others to go. This is a double edged sword. I've posted many trip reports but have slowed down over the past few years. There was one individual who asked if I was willing to share information about petroglyphs with him via PM. I had no clue who the person was and asked a bit about him. When he failed to tell me anything about himself and had very few posts on the forum I told him I had been fortunate to have been on trips with good people who were able to share some places with me. He sent one angry reply and ceased anymore posts on the forum. It felt like he was fishing.

Edited by ETAV8R, 17 September 2016 - 02:36 AM.

[craig333]

I haven't yet pm'd anyone for details to a secret location but I may, however I wouldn't be offended if they declined. I'd want to meet someone in person, not just on the internet before I decided whether to pass on that kind of information. 

 

 

A boulder fence might not stop everyone but it'd probably be good for 99% of the idiots.

[allanb]

Sad to say, and a very unpolitic position, butI think it stems from overpopulation as whole. Forms my views on immigration and refugees. The one percent have their refuges of thousands and millions of acres. The rest of us have to share with , not 200 million when we were kids, but 300 plus million and counting

[ETAV8R]

I agree as well. Overpopulation is a greater number of humans and with that comes a greater number of idiots.

[ski3pin]

We can debate and agree and disagree on what the causes are, but what do we do about it? How do we limit and prevent intentional or unintentional damage?

From my experience living in/near one of our heavily used "urban" National Forests, I have personally experienced countless examples of sickening damage that has numbed my senses.

A local example that mirrors the issue at the Racetrack are our decommissioned mountain top fire lookouts. The one closest to me (and closest to public) had unrestricted road access to the lookout. The buildings were shotgunned to death, literally blown apart, but not before having human excrement smeared all over the interior walls. The remaining unused lookouts are now behind locked gates and you cannot drive a vehicle within a half mile. So one proven solution is to keep the public away.

One lookout has become an overnight public rental. Damage has slowed considerably because there is always somebody around. So an alternate solution is to bring the public in with management.

We see a similar management approach - bringing in the public - in rural Lincoln County Nevada with their numerous petroglyph sites. They, of course, want to bring in tourist dollars, but they also want the side benefit of a public presence. Will it work?

Neither of these approaches are without flaws.

The Racetrack is a famous feature of Death Valley National Park. People want to see it. Local communities demand that it stay open to bring in the tourist dollars. The solution at the Racetrack will be to bring in more public with management. The road will be paved. There will be designated parking places and only that number will be allowed on the road at one time. No one can be on the Racetrack at night except on those few nights a year when a ranger leads a night tour. A separate fee will be charged to walk out on the playa. The park concessionaire will operate a bus tour. An example of this style of management can be seen with Red Meadows Road in the Mammoth Lakes area in the eastern Sierra.

There is nothing we can do about our skyrocketing population except face the facts.

[allanb]

I agree as well. Overpopulation is a greater number of humans and with that comes a greater number of idiots.

And Einsteins. The point being its the skeleton in the closet folks don't like to talk about. Like Abbey said , growth is only the genius of a cancer cell.
It's like tilting at windmills, but I'll do what little I can to help limit growth and overpopulation. Weather from inside the U.S or out.