23 replies to this topic

[backcountrydad]

Howdy folks, I'm new to WTW but appreciate all the collective wisdom I've been reading in the various forums.

 

I'm looking to buy my first pop-up cab-over and am narrowing the search down to FWC and Hallmark. Seems easier to find used FWC's than Hallmarks (I could be wrong), and the thought of putting $20k+ on the table for a new Hallmark is a tough pill to swallow, even though the Hallmarks seem to be a bit better made and roomier inside.

 

So I'm posting to the FWC forum in hopes of receiving some input on why y'all chose an FWC over a Hallmark. For instance, the fact that the cab-over needs to be pulled out to form a Queen bed--even on the Grandby--seems suboptimal vs. the Hallmark EXC where the cab-over is already a full Queen--whether in the standard configuration or the North-South configuration. So what are the selling points of the FWC vs the Hallmark that convinced you to choose an FWC.

 

I don't mean to be inciting any riots. Just looking for some honest feedback to help with my buying decision.

 

Thanks in advance.

[kmcintyre]

You'll most likely get a lot of opinions but my take it depends on what you are doing with the camper.  If you plan on doing some off pavement exploring/camping/etc. the FWC or ATC is hard to beat.  The key things I think you need to look at are the underlying structural components.  Wood doesn't hold up well to the flexing that campers take over time. 

 

I see a lot more FWC/ATC campers in the backcountry than I do Hallmark for what that's worth and for me, that's a sign of a quality camper.  I've been to the ATC factory twice and seen the campers being made and the customer service they provide is unmatched and since I own an ATC camper, you can figure out what I decided on.

 

If you look at resale too, you can see FWC/ATC campers hold their value and sell quickly on the used camper market.  That's because they are in high demand and hold up.  Mine is about 15 years old and going strong.

Edited by kmcintyre, 01 March 2017 - 10:54 AM.

[longhorn1]

I spent 2 years researching Outfitter, Hallmark, ATC, and FWC. My 1st Choice would have been Hallmark, but fully loaded the cost came close to $40K. That eliminated Hallmark. I finally settled for a FWC Grandby for my F-250 longbed (8'). You need to base your selection on how you plan on using your camper and what you can spend. If you plan on doing a lot of back road driving the lighter FWC and ATC are better suited in my opinion. I bought the FWC over the ATC because of the dealer network, with the Wisconsin dealer within easy driving distance and due to some more modern design features. However with that said ATC will do more custom work. I paid around $25K for a loaded camper. The pull out bed is not an inconvenience by any means, just gives more space with the slide in.

[Happyjax]

Hello Backcountrydad and welcome to WTW:)

 

I have also been researching campers and have been following this wonderful site and others for a couple years.

I have also considered FWC/ATC and Hallmark and my take on it is they are both very good campers but one is a bit too spartan for me and the other very expensive.....

 

I have recently been considering Bundutec (there are a couple threads on that) Alaskan and Northstar. I am still trying to fit a pop up into my choice because it is a better off road choice but hard sides do have advantages....

 

These are all wood framed campers and while proponents of aluminum will give reasons why they prefer it I like wood better. It is warmer, it is a bit heavier but not a problem in non-slide campers (IMHO). There are 60 year old Alaskans still in use that have been everywhere so wood is quite adequate for off road use, plus I can repair wood damage but can not fix a broken weld without taking the camper somewhere and welds do break.....

 

No matter what choice you end up with you will find tons of knowledge and help here and so much experience that some of these folks have done things I may never get to try Good luck in your hunting and I hope you find the perfect camper!

[iowahiker]

We purchased our FWC Granby instead of a Hallmark because the Granby is lower, narrower, and lighter while having a better two bed floor plan, the roll-over-couch, since we did not want to convert a dinette to a bed (been there, done that, not desirable).  Hallmarks can get very heavy and we saw 3/4 ton trucks sagging a lot with a Hallmark while our Granby rides perfectly on our heavy duty 1/2 ton.  Our 1/2 ton gets 2-3 mpg's better than a 3/4 ton gasoline while we did not want a diesel which can get very heavy.  We would consider a Hallmark if we dispersed camp or boon dock frequently since high trim Hallmark models come with black water tanks (and the resulting height, weight and cost) and put that heavier camper on a 1 ton.

[ski3pin]

backcountrydad, welcome to Wander the West!

 

The best camper is the one you and your family are comfortable in and that makes you get out and use it. Hallmarks, from what I have seen from watching used sales for many years, sell quickly and hold value similar to FWC and ATC.

 

If creature comforts and the ease of getting bedding ready are important to you and your family, go with it.

 

I have seen many older Hallmarks out being used, so seat of the pants observation is that they are holding up and not falling apart. I suspect the owners are also keeping up on care and maintenance.

 

History is important here - this website was put together by a young man who started out with a FWC. He later had a custom ATC built for him. Trip reports and discussions centered and grew around that community. What would WTW look like if he had started with a different brand camper? I suspect it would be just as enthusiastic and informative. The focus may be a little different.

 

There are several good campers out there. Look at them all. Spent some real time in them. Pretend to cook. Move around and past one another in the limited space. Sit for a good period of time - as if you were riding out a storm or long cold night - and judge your comfort.

 

The main thing - make the search fun. It's part of the journey.

 

To answer your question, our needs were for a tiny light weight camper that we could carry on our small truck. We travel small rough roads that lead to places we want to explore. Our comfort needs are important but minimal. We travel light and resist the temptation to pile on more gear. Our ATC camper fits our needs perfectly and we love it.

 

Best of luck with your search and here's to years of happy camping for you and your family.

 

 

[Bad Habit]

It really comes down to how and where you're going to use it, and how much you're willing to spend to do those things.  As others have said, the Hallmarks are more substantial, a little wider, taller, and heavier.  They provide for more storage (which then compounds the heavier, ask me how I know...).  They tend to be more built out from the factory, the base models seem to be outfitted with a lot of items that are considered options (if even available) from other manufacturers.  Because they are built to order, you can easily make changes that refine it to what you're looking for and how you want it.  At a premium cost of course.  When I did my calculations, it really wasn't that much more with the options I configured.

 

I believe because of the composite construction, they seem to have less condensation problems.  But also because of that construction, I would assume any major damage would be difficult to repair. 

 

We looked at the various different manufacturers, toured a couple of factories and decided for us, the extra expense of the Hallmark was justified.  I have a diesel 1 ton, so that minimized the weight concern (they are ALL heavier than the provided specs and literature state).  It's not like that 1 ton is light and nimble, so the advantage of the FWC or ATC was minimized.

 

There are times when I do wish I had a smaller lighter camper, but that's true of the truck too.  I think it's less limiting though than I feel it is, it's just a matter of getting that comfort level to push it a little more than I do.

 

Understand what how you're going to use it, that's the key to it all.  From there you can decide which fills your needs better and whether the cost is justified.  What ever you decide, use it - a lot

 

(We're the first set of pictures on the Hallmark home page banner)

[rotti]

 As others have said, the Hallmarks are more substantial, a little wider, taller, and heavier.

 

And that was the deal breaker for me.

 

My FWC is on full time and the truck is my daily driver, as such the rig must fit in my garage. The FWC just barely fits and the Hallmark wasn't even close with its taller cab over design.

[sourdough]

 I had a minimalist optioned Hawk shell for awhile. It never seemed to effect how far down the road my truck could go. I enjoyed the Hawk but my wife wanted more creature comforts. A FWC, even well optioned is the best for getting back into the boonies. Lighter, will stay together longer and purpose built to get the job done.  A Hallmark is heavier with more creature comforts, has a higher quality finished feel but less off-road worthy IMO. Think of it as a more traditional hard sided slide-in camper but with a pop top.

 My wife and I toured the Hallmark factory with the owner. My wife was sold on the Hallmark because of the luxury feel. I concided to Hallmarks luxury over FWC’s back road prowess. I would tow a Jeep for exploring and my wife would have her comforts. We decided to order one after we got a 2017 1 ton dually truck. While studing the 2017 trucks back in Oct.,’16, a used 2013 Tiger CX with 341 miles came on market. Considering a Hallmark/truck and a Tiger Cx for the same price, was a no brainer for me. I really am liking the CX and saving for a 2018 Wrangler.

 But if it was just me, a FWC was the way to go. 

Edited by sourdough, 01 March 2017 - 05:03 PM.

[craig333]

I read about the people sopping up condensation with a towel and yet, under the worst conditions I've never had to do that. Never had condensation under the bed. Run the heater for a bit and my camper dries out nicely (should have done that before leaving Grass Valley). Keep in mind the condensation issue isn't the same for all people.