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And the wilderness gets a little less wild


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#1 Cayuse

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 07:14 PM

They've paved more of the Burr Trail, apparently rushing into it without giving time for an appeals process so now there are lawsuits...

 

Salt Lake Trib Article Here

 

Really don't know why they's want to do that other than someone in county government must own interest in a paving company.  Not like there is going to be commercial traffic between Boulder and Bullfrog.


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#2 RicoV

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 08:44 PM

Yep, this sux.  They probably figured it'd be simpler to just ask for forgiveness after the fact.  Sadly, there's a lot of that mentality going around these days, and it doesn't bode well for the future.

Rico.


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#3 Ace!

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 09:10 PM

I guess they did it for a number of reasons, but chip seal isn't really paving, especially if it wasn't applied to an already paved/asphalt road.  Chip seal is a great way to reduce annual maintenace costs, increase driver safety and and at minimal cost.  It'd be interesting to know what was actually done, because if they just applied a chip seal, it sounds like this story is much ado about nothing.


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#4 Cayuse

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 10:09 PM

I guess they did it for a number of reasons, but chip seal isn't really paving, especially if it wasn't applied to an already paved/asphalt road.  Chip seal is a great way to reduce annual maintenace costs, increase driver safety and and at minimal cost.  It'd be interesting to know what was actually done, because if they just applied a chip seal, it sounds like this story is much ado about nothing.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on this.  Every definition that I've found considers chipseal a form of pavement.  Like I said, the wilderness is a bit less wild, are they going to chipseal the road to Tuweep next? Cottonwood Canyon? House Rock Valley?  Their is nothing wrong with having unimproved dirt roads for people to travel, there are plenty of hard surfaces for others to travel on.


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#5 Ace!

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 11:04 PM

When you say there is nothing wrong with having unimproved dirt roads to travel, it depends on who you ask and what you ask of them.  If the BLM is responsible, or any other organization or entity, for maintenance then there is something wrong with unimproved dirt roads.  They are very expensive to maintain, to monitor for vehicle travel/traffic and for recovery costs and damage claims.  I managed an area with dirt roads and it was very costly and we regularly had complaint and claims for vehicle damage.

 

The governing body for the area I managed looked at the cost of maintenance over time versus adding a chip seal to the dirt surface and realized very quickly that dirt roads are like the Jeeps that travel them, a hole that you can never fill, regardless of the money you pour into them.  Add a chip seal and you can extend the life, lower the cost and provide a level of service an unimproved dirt road cannot.  So, there can be something wrong with them, based on the expectation of the driver and expectation of the tax payer.

 

Not saying a chip seal was the right decision, just that there are valid reasons, agreed with or not, for adding chips.  Oh, and chip seal is usually applied to an already asphalted road, to extend the life and add safety.  It's usually not added to a dirt surface, although it was in the area I managed.  We specifically added it to a dirt surface and in my mind that's not paving the surface; although, I can understand the argument that others would make that it is.  In my mind it is more of a binder and adding additional rock, but that's my "opinion."


Edited by Ace!, 02 May 2019 - 11:07 PM.

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#6 Vic Harder

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Posted 03 May 2019 - 05:04 AM

Always more than one factor involved, eh?  


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#7 Ted

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Posted 03 May 2019 - 02:54 PM

Ace, I work for a local government and know that we only use chip seal on already paved roads to extend the life of the road as you say. But I don't work on those projects, so have a question. It seems a chip seal over a dirt road would be extremely thin and unable to stand up to much traffic without the asphalt base. I would think it would just be broken up into oily gravel itself in a very short period defeating the purpose. Is this not the case?


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#8 Smokecreek1

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Posted 03 May 2019 - 03:03 PM

Yep-it's not so much the "What" as it is the ":How" that is the problem!  They invent their own rules and  short shift the EIS/Ea process as SOP. We just got to keep writing those letters and attending those public meetings.

 

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#9 ski3pin

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Posted 03 May 2019 - 03:05 PM

Yep-it's not so much the "What" as it is the ":How" that is the problem! They invent their own rules and short shift the EIS/Ea process as SOP. We just got to keep writing those letters and attending those public meetings.

Smoke


Smoke, thanks for getting back to the point of the lawsuit.
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#10 PaulT

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Posted 03 May 2019 - 03:39 PM

There is a road in my neighborhood that I walk daily to keep my FitBit happy. The powers that be decided to revert from asphalt to gravel to reduce maintenance.
To that end, they removed most of the pavement and prepared a gravel surface. A resident with some political clout complained and got the county to chip seal the gravel surface. The chip seal surface is not as durable as the remaining section of asphalt but it isn’t muddy, dusty or washboardy. No rocks thrown into windshield.
I can understand the frustration of those responsible for the road upkeep to balance rural road budgets with tourist complaints of road surfaces and preservation of pristine environments demanded by non resident vocal entities. They have a difficult task. Cut them some slack. :)

Paul
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