19 replies to this topic

[XJINTX]

Thanks to you both..  It was a shock at first, but just a day later I have better accepted the situation.

XJINTX (or anyone), what are private campgrounds like?  I have only ever stayed in BLM/Forest lands.. Other than the occasional NP or park established campground.  But have always avoided the privately owned ones, as I have visions of the parking lot style RV parks in my mind. 
Are there decent, spread out, attractive private campgrounds?  And if so, how do you find them vs your standard RV park? 

 I've been to the area enough times that I have driven to and by most of them. Have a friend that runs one but she does through Air B&B. The smaller ones are well dispersed and few if any facilities. The larger ones are closer together but have facilities. Even at very busy times we were always able to find one. That said we also stay ay the State Park a lot.  Recently I have found some great HipCamp sites too https://www.hipcamp....xas/study-butte

[smlobx]

We had the same experiences as many above regarding camping in NP’s this past summer. Like many hear we had (25 years ago) just rolled into a NP in the morning and could usually get a spot for a few days without any issues.

 

‘’We’ll we tried that in Glacier and Yellowstone this summer and got a cold water dose of reality splashed in our face. In Glacier the entire East side was closed due to Native tribes restricting access and of course Yellowstone is completely booked online. My wife did however have success in calling the reservation line directly and talking to an agent. We were able to piece together a 7 night stay in YNP so it is worth the effort.

[windy]

I'm trying to plan a winter trip, and this is the first year I'm noticing this recreation.gov crud.. I have been a lifetime backpacker, been to most national parks, etc.. Then had a kid 6 years ago and took a break. And now I'm starting to get out again.. everything I used to just pull up to and stay seems to want reservations.. what happened?!?!? Even national forest sites which are always empty, now say they require reservations.

So, was planning on going to bigbend for Christmas and staying on some of their dispersed sites. They're all booked for months. But also, they're free sites, so there are zero consequences for people to think maybe they'll go, and book the site. Then never end up showing up.

I guess I'm wondering.. Is this recreation.gov stuff real? I really can't just drive around in the parks and forests and find a random place to stay, w/out planning my stops months ahead of time?
What happens if I drive out to big bend, and down one of those loooooong roads and it gets dark? Are there still unpublished options for us explorers who might not want to reserve things months ahead of time?

We faced the same dilemma. After a lot of angst we finally had enough and just went, come what may. What we have learned is that 90% of the time it is no problem. I have always lived by the rule that it is much easier to get forgiveness than permission. Part of our success I believe is that we try to go during off times as opposed to peak season.

We just traveled from Texas to Washington, via née Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, and Oregon. We stayed at a couple of NP’s, one private RV park and the rest dispersed camping along the way. Never had a problem although we lucked out and did get the last spot at Guadeloupe Mountain NP. It also helps if you are willing to arrive relatively early in the day.

Luck plays a big part but it always helps to maintain patience and a sense of humor. Go and enjoy, you will find a place.

[wicked1]

Thanks Windy..  As usual w/ the internet..  Read enough, and you're sure to find the answer you want.. Because what you are saying is my thought on it too.  I can't believe the entire country all of a sudden changed a lifetime of travel habits over 2 years because all of a sudden some website shows up.

I mean..  I'm not a big nationalist or anything, but this is 'merica!  We're free to drive out of our driveways and go where we go..  Not some pinko commy nation where we plan every stop of our trip ahead of time!!!

Edited by wicked1, 13 December 2020 - 02:33 PM.

[Sleddog]

National Park and National Forest campgrounds being crowded isn't something that just happened overnight two years ago because of a website, it is a growing trend that really got going when the first of the baby boomers started retiring in 2012 and buying RVs, resulting in 8 straight years of growth in the RV industry. These people are often inexperienced campers and usually prefer campgrounds to any sort of primitive camping, the campgrounds get busier by the year even though it seems new commercial campgrounds are popping up everywhere. These people are in general risk averse and want to plan their trip well in advance. The new reservation systems merely reflect the wishes of the fast growing RV market.

Throw in the effects of the coronavirus pandemic and all of a sudden all of the dispersed camping sites were full too this summer. We quickly learned to find a dispersed campsite well before dark in order to beat the masses, the earlier in the day the better.

We rarely travel with any sort of itinerary or reservations and have almost always had good luck. I think it helps that we always travel during shoulder seasons and rarely during peak season. Even though campgrounds show full almost immediately after opening a reservation window, at least a few people end up canceling their well laid plans because something came up. There are almost always a few open sites last minute at even the busiest of campgrounds. And if the campgrounds are truly full, there is almost always some sort of public land nearby that allows dispersed camping.

We have also learned that many State Park Campgrounds are reluctant to turn away a weary traveler just before dark and either have an overflow lot or will find a parking spot you can use for the night. This summer I learned to ask about the camp host site during the offseason when it is unoccupied, it probably won't show up on the reservation website but it may be available if you just ask, we ended up with one of the best sites at a campground that was otherwise full.

I expect the number of extra dispersed campers will decline temporarily only to increase with time as more people retire and hit the road in their new RV. Campgrounds will become even busier, pushing even more people onto public lands. I also expect to slowly lose large swaths of dispersed camping areas as disrespectful camping "newbies" continue to cause resource damage, everyone will be corralled into either pay campgrounds or a handful of "designated" dispersed sites. I cannot express my dismay at what has happened around Moab over the last 20 years or so, but I believe it is the way of the future.

As for Big Bend, we spent two weeks there in early January and asking forgiveness was standard procedure. I have never seen so many blatantly illegal campers anywhere in my life. The park is aware of the problem but lacks the funding to hire the personnel necessary to deal with it. Most of the time the illegal campers were a respectable distance from our legally permitted campsite, but not always, and on our last night there I had to run somebody out of our actual campsite at 2am. It all made me wonder why I bothered getting a permit and paying for our campsites in the first place.

[wicked1]

I I also expect to slowly lose large swaths of dispersed camping areas as disrespectful camping "newbies" continue to cause resource damage, everyone will be corralled into either pay campgrounds or a handful of "designated" dispersed sites. I cannot express my dismay at what has happened around Moab over the last 20 years or so, but I believe it is the way of the future.

 

Thanks a lot for your post.. It's a very 'real' take on the situation. 

As for the part I quoted, I agree completely, and it's something I worry about every time I go out. 
On my last several trips we have come across nature vandalism (graffiti, etc), and also 'dispersed' camps where clearly a homeless drug addict lived there.  There were stacks of trash and car parts and here's the scary part...  Cans full of used needles and piles of cut open suitcases!!  SO, someone stealing suitcases from travelers to sell off items and buy drugs. 

And this is literally more than one spot on each trip, various places across the country.    We are sure to come across this same scene of needles and cut open suitcases. 

Something has to change, and I'm afraid it will be us 'good' campers who pay the price.

Edited by wicked1, 13 December 2020 - 05:23 PM.

[ski3pin]

The reality is our public lands are a finite resource. More visitors, more demand, and increasing impacts require changes. Our land managers work to protect the land and come up with countermeasures to limit impacts but also assure the public's access and use. Change is inevitable and, as is usual, will be met with cries of outrage from users. Take a look at the Alabama Hills for an example. It was once a quiet place where you could easily find a great spot to disperse camp. It is now crowded, covered with a spider's web of user created roads and overused and abused bare swatches of ground. I call it the fire ring capital of the world. Most nights there you will be hit by headlights of other campers trying to find a spot. We no longer camp in the Alabama Hills. BLM is currently in the process of developing a plan to address the increasing use and reverse and prevent damage. I expect it to unfold in steps. It will take time but if the trend continues we will see camping only in designated sites on a reservation system. This is much preferable to seeing the beautiful Alabama Hills looking like Quartzsite, AZ - covered with RV's.

 

Our growing population is the problem. Management options are simply best expressed by the de facto mission statement of the National Park Service - Protect the Park from the people, protect the people from the Park, and protect the people from each other.

 

"Something has to change, and I'm afraid it will be us 'good' campers who pay the price."

 

Absolutely. I'm happy to pay a price if I see that change protecting the land and making a difference. As opinionated as I can sometimes come across as, I do try to take a deep breath and see the big picture.

 

I am resigned to the fact that in a couple of decades there will no longer be free dispersed campsites on our public lands. All will be designated, reserved, and most likely run for a profit by a private corporation such as Disney. Take a look at all our beautiful places. How can we not see it as a huge business opportunity? RV sales, support services, overnight fees.

 

It is not the land managers' fault. It is not the fault of politicians. It is not the locals' fault. It is all of us.

 

 

 

 

[Casa Escarlata Robles Too]

Ski thanks,that is very nicely said.

Frank

[Smokecreek1]

Okay, lets add some positive news here! Just got an Email from the "Friends of the Nevada Wilderness"  that the proposed expansion of both  Fallon NAS into public lands to the east and Nellis AFB into the Desert Big Horn NWR has been eliminated from the 2021 NDAA (defense bill) for at least the next 25 years!  Know the lands  near Fallon well-my old stomping grounds (Ski and the Lady have done TR's there of late), never been to the DBNWR before, now I got the time too-maybe visit the Basin And Range NM while I'm at it too!  Alas I too agree with Ski and Frank,  all we can do is write those letters, send emails and attend  every public land planning meeting you can and support those folks trying to properly  manage it for us!

 

Smoke

Edited by Smokecreek1, 13 December 2020 - 08:59 PM.

[Taku]

What we experienced in the NP's and National Forests for camping this  year was far beyond (in many places) the use we have seen in years past. As one of our folks described it, "it was like the eclipse, every single day." There were dozens, if not hundreds of new dispersed sites that appeared this year and the agencies could not even begin to keep up with it. I do know the Park had people just pulling off the road and camping in the sagebrush since they could not find a campsite and not having a clue the damage they were doing. Lot's of folks with no experience camping - some good stories about the rec folks helping people set up their tents and showing them how to use a campstove. And fielding lot's of complaints about why the outhouses did not have running water. Definitely a different year!