24 replies to this topic

[campito]

does cold weather damage the battery, or just no charging below 24 degrees?  I live in an area that is often below 24 degrees so will it be damaged during winter storage?

[wicked1]

storage and discharge are fine in the cold.  Just no charging below around freezing.

[steve whiteside]

I had the same problem and replaced my 2 60Ah Victron gel batteries with a 100Ah lithium LifePo4 battery. I have a Fleet with diesel heater, cooler, light and som charging is the main power consumption. I also have a 275W solar panel, but not much effect where I live at this time of the year. Lithium battery works much better for me, camped this week and it was around 0F. I have a battery with internal heat and Bluetooth and find that essential. The BMS automatically stops charging when the battery is to cold and starts the internal heat until the temp limit is reached. The Bluetooth gives a good overview regarding the status of the battery (power left, current power consumption, voltage, number of cycles, charging) which makes it possible to plan and manage before you run out of power. One of the many benefits with a lithium battery is the rapid charging. I run a 30A Victron DC/DC which gives me 30Ah in one hour. So if I am running out of power I start the truck and charge the battery as much as required. On this week hunting trip for 2 nights I used around 50 Ah a day. It was cold and relatively short days when it comes to daylight so the heater was running for 16 hours a day which is around 30Ah. Then the cooler, light, charging of phone/tablet is around 15-20. It was clear weather and sunny, but it only produced 13Ah the first day and 15Ah day 2. The BMS/Bluetooth gave me full control of the situation, so I managed w/o running the truck. I have experienced the diesel heater stopped working due to not burning clean and soothing with my led batteries. When the voltage drops to low the fan slows down but the pump delivers the same amount of fuel. Leads to the wrong fuel/air mix, soot and shut down. Lithium batteries holds the voltage much better and will deliver good voltage all the way down to the BMS shut down when it is 5-10% left.

 

 

That sounds like a great set up!  Steve

[ri-f]

Here's a link to the Battleborn white paper on cold-weather performance of a Lithium vs Lead battery

 

https://battlebornba...te-paper-study/

 

Rich

 

[rando]

Not trying to shoot the messenger, but that battleborn article is largely bollocks and has been discussed here before.   Read the comments at the bottom, they essentially rigged the test so that there is no way the lead acid batteries could even come close to realistic performance.    You would think the fact that they were only getting 5-25% of the rated capacity from the lead acid batteries at room temperature would have tipped them off that there was something wrong with their 'test' methodology.

 

Lithium performance does degrade less at low temperature although it still does loose capacity. 

[ri-f]

Not trying to shoot the messenger, but that battleborn article is largely bollocks and has been discussed here before.   Read the comments at the bottom, they essentially rigged the test so that there is no way the lead acid batteries could even come close to realistic performance.    You would think the fact that they were only getting 5-25% of the rated capacity from the lead acid batteries at room temperature would have tipped them off that there was something wrong with their 'test' methodology.

 

Lithium performance does degrade less at low temperature although it still does loose capacity. 

Rando, I get what you're saying, but to be fair, keep in mind that it's a commercial 'white paper', not a scientific peer-reviewed journal article. The goal of a white paper, by a for-profit company, is to persuade the reader to reach a specific conclusion. It's a marketing tool that may not present a complete picure. In that sense, calling a white paper's test results 'rigged', may be fair game, but it also implies that the company has no credibility, because they tweaked the parameters of the white paper to favor their product. But that's exactly the intention of a white paper, from a for-profit company. In a roundabout yet targeted way, they do imply that the cold weather performance of their product has merit and can exceed the capabilities of their competitors in some specific ways. They also claim that cold-weather performance will negatively affect their product.

I think that you have to take any commercial white paper with a grain of salt, but the bottom line is, if the product (in their case, a Battleborn LiFePO4 battery) works as described in the real world, then that's what counts. Of course they will try to make an AGM battery look less attractive in lab tests. The white paper may persuade you to lean toward their product, if it does, then they have succeeded with their white paper. It may also just have the opposite result, that is, it may convince you that their tests were not credible, and so, by extension, the company isn't either and you won't buy their product. That's the chance they take. It's up to us to read between the lines, or take the time to analyze complex scientific research papers on the subject, on our own, to be convinced of the claims. Making an informed decision can be a tedious process. That's the benefit of a discussion group like this. We can test the product and provide real-world feedback that includes the good, the bad, and the ugly.

Rich

 

[Vic Harder]

Rich/rando... I really didn't like that white paper, and it does make me less inclined to trust Battleborn.  That said, I have two of their batteries.

[ri-f]

Rich/rando... I really didn't like that white paper, and it does make me less inclined to trust Battleborn.  That said, I have two of their batteries.

Vic, I know, right? I too bought one of their batteries. Fortunately, it has performed well for me, in both hot and cold conditions and I have no complaints about it...yet.

 

Rich

[rando]

I understand why they did this - the one thing lithium batteries have a bad rap for in the community is cold weather performance (which I personally think is overblown) and they are trying to counter this with some creative marketing.  
 

However, the fact that they were borderline dishonest in their 'head-to-head' test reflects poorly on their company and we should call them out for it.  The technology has many advantages and stands on it's own, there is no need for them to be disingenuous.  

[Bigfoot Dave]

Morton's on the move you tube channel has a test video comparing BB and others as a followup to BB's test. It would be interesting to hear some thoughts on Tom's tests,

It's cold in northern Minnesota this week, Bigfoot Dave