19 replies to this topic

[rich]

Last year I was there the 1st week of February and they got most of their annual rainfall, just over an inch. It closed all the non paved roads and flooded the Furnace Creek Campground but it was neat to see. I believe the road to the Kilns is pretty simple, bring a variety of layers.

Hey Barko,

Greet pic of the kilns. I see your dog in the pic, we will be traveling with our Border Collie Ryder but the National Parks are so restrictive about dogs we were thinking about trying to leave him with friends for the DV portion of the trip.

How was it for you with the dog, did it tie you to the vehicle too much?

[generubin]

Great pics and info Gene! I have heard about Saline Valley but my impression has always been that the road is a nasty 4x4 road and my little T-100 is underpowered with the camper on. Is the road really easy enough for a prius to get in? Also about the tire chains. I don't have a set because my truck is four wheel drive and I have always lived (and stayed living) by the idea that if I need chains on my 4x4 I don't want to be out driving in that weather. I'll be there around new years so I am expecting snow. Do you think Saline Valley will be accessible around new years?

Also the low temps I saw online for the evenings in DV were low 40's high 30's, how common are temperatures in the teens?

Thanks for the info.

The temps you read on line are from Furnace Creek at Sea Level and Scotty's Castle at about 1400 feet elevation. Much of DV is very mountainous this is where the temps drop and the snow comes in. Even at sea level you can get a cold snap in the 20's and 30's. I have been at Furnace Creek and woke one morning to 10 degrees!

About 4x4 and chains. Many of the passes can be steep. These passes are also in the shade most of the day. I have seen plenty of 4x4 just slip and slide, to make zero forward motion on this slippery ice. At the very same time you'll see small 2wd sedans with chains merrily pass the truck and climb right over the hill. Basically, it doesn't matter how many wheels you have driven if they have essentially zero traction. I go on a lot of trips into wild country in groups with other people. We require everyone bring chains no matter what. We don't want one slippery vehicle to to a liability for all the others.

The Saline Valley road is a wide, graded road with the usual washboard. As I said before, last weekend I saw Prius, Fiesta, a Mercedes AMG, a Lexus, a couple of Hondas, plenty of Vanagons and of course the usual 4x4. There are four ways into Saline. The most used South Pass does not require particularly high clearance or 4wd. But I don't care if you are 8wd, the Grapevine Canyon part of the road on the way out is very steep and shady, if it snows and ices up, you'll be stuck and the Prius' with chains will wave at you as they drive by.

DV is an amazing place. Outside of Wrangel St, Elias National Park in Alaska, DV is the largest park in the USA. There is over 750 miles of dirt roads in the park not to mention another 500 miles in the areas just outside the park.

Spend as much time as you can at DV, it is very special.

Enjoy!

Pictures are 1. rocky Mengel Pass at Butte Valley (not recommended for you) but the approach from the east to the beautiful Butte Valley is highly recommended. 2. Chinlisle (Jay) at Saline Valley, 3. DVNP Superintendent and I heading together towards the Saline Grapevine (notice front cable chains). 4. Racetrack under snow.

[generubin]

Yes, Saline is doable around New Years. I'll be there for one. Watch www.deathvalley.com forums for more info.

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[generubin]

Sorry, Racetrack under snow. The dark rocks is The Grandstand.

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[HERR42]

i have some really good advice:

DV is really spread out. The driving time between locations is significant and easily underestimated. Road conditions are part of the equation but distance is truly a factor.

Seeing one or two sights can consume a full day.....with a lot of that time being behind the wheel.

Dont underestimate.

[DirtyDog]

How was it for you with the dog, did it tie you to the vehicle too much?

Many of us had dogs at last years rally. It wasn't much of an issue.

[rich]

The temps you read on line are from Furnace Creek at Sea Level and Scotty's Castle at about 1400 feet elevation. Much of DV is very mountainous this is where the temps drop and the snow comes in. Even at sea level you can get a cold snap in the 20's and 30's. I have been at Furnace Creek and woke one morning to 10 degrees!

About 4x4 and chains. Many of the passes can be steep. These passes are also in the shade most of the day. I have seen plenty of 4x4 just slip and slide, to make zero forward motion on this slippery ice. At the very same time you'll see small 2wd sedans with chains merrily pass the truck and climb right over the hill. Basically, it doesn't matter how many wheels you have driven if they have essentially zero traction. I go on a lot of trips into wild country in groups with other people. We require everyone bring chains no matter what. We don't want one slippery vehicle to to a liability for all the others.

The Saline Valley road is a wide, graded road with the usual washboard. As I said before, last weekend I saw Prius, Fiesta, a Mercedes AMG, a Lexus, a couple of Hondas, plenty of Vanagons and of course the usual 4x4. There are four ways into Saline. The most used South Pass does not require particularly high clearance or 4wd. But I don't care if you are 8wd, the Grapevine Canyon part of the road on the way out is very steep and shady, if it snows and ices up, you'll be stuck and the Prius' with chains will wave at you as they drive by.

DV is an amazing place. Outside of Wrangel St, Elias National Park in Alaska, DV is the largest park in the USA. There is over 750 miles of dirt roads in the park not to mention another 500 miles in the areas just outside the park.

Spend as much time as you can at DV, it is very special.

Enjoy!

Pictures are 1. rocky Mengel Pass at Butte Valley (not recommended for you) but the approach from the east to the beautiful Butte Valley is highly recommended. 2. Chinlisle (Jay) at Saline Valley, 3. DVNP Superintendent and I heading together towards the Saline Grapevine (notice front cable chains). 4. Racetrack under snow.

Well Gene you make a compelling point for Saline Valley and the chains. My other car is a prius - maybe I should take it :-) I'll check into what a set of chains would cost for my 31's (gulp). From what I've read online it's about 58 miles of dirt in to the warm springs camp at Saline Valley. What kind of travel time does it usually take you with and without snow to get in and out?

[generubin]

Rich,

Cable chains are what I use. You'll only need one set for the fronts. They are less than $100. Check ebay, lots of times you can find brand new sets that someone never used as low as $30.

It takes from Hwy 190 to the Springs about 2 hours under normal conditions. Coming out is the same unless you do have to chain up which adds 1/2 hour. From racetrack is a really scenically spectacular road called Lippincott. Going the downhill way, it is a very easy drive. Going up, a little more of a challenge. But this way allows you to see The Racetrack and then a short cut into Saline.

I'll be there for a few days sometime around Xmas/New Years break. I'll be a fiddler in the camp with some other musicians.

Here is a fun link to a campout with some of my regular camping buddies in the Old Woman Mountains:

[kcowyo]

Death Valley is like an onion - people either like it or they don't. Furthering that analogy, I believe it is best revealed in layers, starting on the surface - Badwater, Zabriskie Point, Dante's View, Titus Canyon, etc. - before getting into it's inner layers.

I'll agree that Saline Valley and all of Death Valley is a special place, but I wouldn't recommend Saline to someone who is looking for an easy to moderate trail, and who feels his vehicle & wife aren't up for more than that. It's too remote and too many opportunities for problems for a first time visitor to the park... Better to start off on some of the paved loops taking in the more popular attractions before tackling Saline Valley, the Racetrack, Mengel Pass, etc. There is plenty to see and enjoy in the park for all comfort levels.

I'm just returning to civilization tonight after a few days in Death Valley this week. It was windy & wonderful. I drove through Titus Canyon for the first time since '97. I had forgotten what a fun trail that is. Lots of great places to see in Death Valley. Dip a toe in and go from there....

.

[Barko1]

Hey Barko,

Greet pic of the kilns. I see your dog in the pic, we will be traveling with our Border Collie Ryder but the National Parks are so restrictive about dogs we were thinking about trying to leave him with friends for the DV portion of the trip.

How was it for you with the dog, did it tie you to the vehicle too much?

Sorry I missed this post. The National Parks are a pain, I begrudgingly understand. At least in Death Valley you can take your dogs into the backcountry with your vehicle, can't do even that on the White Rim. I don't think you can take them on any of the trails. I wasn't doing much hiking and the park wasn't that busy in part from the weather but you probably can't take off for hours with the pooch. And speaking of Border Collies