45 replies to this topic

[Sam]

I recently camped just outside Yellowstone, and the campground host said that that most of the campgrounds in the area do not allow soft sided campers. Don't know if he's full of it or not, just thought I would share.

[craig333]

I can't hardly reach up that high. Can a bear? And if it did could it get inside that way? Only bear incident I saw was in Yosemite. It got inside a car like it was nothing.

[Brian]

Jay....I had not heard that about Denali but it may well be true. I know that there have been several bear attacks on people there since I worked there.

One thing that I have been thinking about since I posted last about bears is the huge increase in population and how the bear may well be feeling that in the more popular places. I know that last time I went through Yellowstone in the summer it was packed.

I must admit that most of my experiences in bear country was more than 15 years ago and that is a long time in terms of wild animal behavior. As we continue to encroach on habitat and increase our presence there will very likely be consequences in animal behavior. I was taught, like Simimike, from my earliest Boy Scout days to remember that I am the intruder in bear country and act accordingly. As Brett13 does, if it makes me feel more comfortable, a gun and spray aren't an unreasonable thing to have in the camper.

That does bring up another thought and there are those here with far more experience than I, however when I was required to carry a weapon on the job as a jeweler in somewhat remote Alaska, it was suggested by a law enforcement ranger friend that I read Ayoob's book on Using Deadly Force...I am not sure of the title but it can be googled....in regards to the reality of defending myself with a deadly weapon. Once I read it I could not wait to get rid of the damn thing. Now I travel so much south of the border where it is illegal to carry a gun, I am used to using common sense and reasonable caution to stay clear of trouble. Bear spray is considered an illegal weapon some places also...Canada I believe but am not sure. Point being if you cross borders your ability to rely on weapons decreases. That said, I am always less afraid of incidents in other countries than here at home. We are one of the most violent nations on earth in regards to violent crime.
Brian

[chnlisle]

Brian,

I too learned in scouting that I'm in their house and should treat it as such but you're right tours, vans, campers, and weekenders pack Jellystone and every other easily reached area. Denali is different but it has gotten much more croweded over the 5 times I've been there.

About guns. I have never owned one and after Viet Nam really dont want one. I live in a town (Tucson) where its legal to carry a side arm as long as its exposed but we've always had dogs and backdoors and a baseball bat next to the bed so I feel safe. I would rather flee than fight and I dont own anything worth killing for. I dont mean to start a fight here and I respect others views and rights. I do know the arguement about defending loved ones and would certainly do so if I had to but I see no need for me as an individual to beg the issue.

We also go to Mexico a lot and ....Well you said it best.

Back to bears, the continual encroachment will produce some tragic results both in terms of people and the bears. Its inevitable.

[captainkettel]

The book Brian is referring to is by Massad Ayoob. The book is "In The Gravest Extreme." A very good book on your right to protect your castle (FWC). Don't be fooled...Bears don't know when your packin'!

[kcowyo]

I recently camped just outside Yellowstone, and the campground host said that that most of the campgrounds in the area do not allow soft sided campers. Don't know if he's full of it or not, just thought I would share.

True story.

In several of the 'high bear traffic" areas of the park they strongly discourage soft sided campers. Technically it's not illegal to camp in those spots, just discouraged due to bear encounters.

[DLN]

Bear Boxes have become very common in organized campgrounds in Northern & Central California. All State Parks and Forest Service campgrounds we've been to in the last maybe 5-7 years have had them. Mammoth, Lake Tahoe Basin, Lakes Basin, and even obscure camps at the end of 20 miles of rough dirt road. We've always stored what we could in them, but as was pointed out earlier in the thread it's not practical to put everything in the box. We've yet to have any bear problems. They do ravage the random garbage can in our neighborhood though.

[Brian]

I too have no intention of ruffling any feathers regarding guns. It is a very complex issue and I respect the right to own and/or carry one even though my choice today is not to.

I do know that in the area that I was most likely to encounter a grizzly bear, Denali Nat'l. Park, it is illegal to carry or pack a loaded gun as it is in any National Park. Did I have one in my pack when I went out hiking...you guess. But I will admit to having many laughs over how if it is a handgun, you carry it to shoot your hiking partner in the knee so you can get away. I honestly believe a handgun in bear country is merely a psychological crutch. If you feel you need protection, carry a 12 Ga. pump shotgun with alternating buckshot and slugs. That is the gun of choice by rangers and biologists in the field. Sometimes they will carry a large bore longarm of their choice.

If you believe Andy Russell's (Grizzly Country) views on Grizzly bears, they can sense when you are carrying a gun and will act aggresively as if threatened. Your call.

Jay, Welcome home! That goes for any other vets out there as well. I too am a Vietnam combat vet.
Brian in NM

[brett13]

I will admit to having many laughs over how if it is a handgun, you carry it to shoot your hiking partner in the knee so you can get away.

As a bear approached a pair of hikers, one hiker stopped to change out of boots into sneakers:
"What are you doing? You can't out run a bear!"
"Don't need to; I just need to out run you"

I honestly believe a handgun in bear country is merely a psychological crutch.

I agree; especially in a pack where you can't get to it in time.

Now, should we start worrying/debating mountain lions too? Just kidding. I do find those marmots particularly threatening though.

[Brian]

Ahh Brett13, beware the pesky marmot and in this country the crazed Kangaroo Rat. That is the advantage of the FWC/ATC....they leave you alone!

Funny story: Several of us rode out to Arkansas last summer for the national rally of the USCA , a sidecar club I belong to (Texas/Oklahoma/Arkansas in the summer...what a foolish thing to do!). We camped all the way out, there and back as we do. I was carrying a hardsided, soft-topped cooler with a lot of our food in it in my sidecar and at night I would snap the naughahyde tonneau cover over it all and worry about mice getting into it. Many years since I have camped in areas with very many other pesky critters like the south and east has. I remember the pesky porkies in the northeast in my younger backpacking days but it has been a very long time since I gave it a thought......well...I awoke and climbed out of the tent to a destroyed tonneau cover, ripped apart cooler and almost no food left.....and the evidence of lots of little raccoon prints in the dirt and on the hack. So, every camp from there on the food went into a "bear/coon bag" and hung up between two trees. Fixed that problem....and I was still unable to win the hardship award at the rally due someone else's vehicle breakdown...what a rip!
Brian in NM