26 replies to this topic

[Wandering Sagebrush]

live stock are big game herds are small now hunting poor these  are not native American wolfs  we had them here in the mid 90ds there gone now these imports are hugh ,many 200+  it has not been good for us
,

Apologies if this seems critical, but your post is unreadable. It's clear you don't care for wolves, but I'm not making much more out of it.

[imix]

There is a female gray wolf roaming the North Rim of the Grand Canyon. Spotted and verified. First one since the 1940's.

Dsrtrat

 

Damn......I hope she stays in the park, if she moves out to the Kaibab forest she's a goner. I also know of a wolf being hit on Highway 89 north of Flagstaff a few years back, a migrant from the Mexican grey wolf releases in Eastern Arizona. I have had the pleasure of hearing a few of them howl in the White Mountains.

 

Apologies if this is old information:

 

Wolves used to be, before man, the most widely distributed land animal on earth. Its not surprising that with protections they would attempt to re-establish their ranges. On the Kaibab wolves were hunted to extinction in the 1920's to 1940's, ostensibly to proctect the deer herds, which Teddy Rooselvet had declared a "National Treasure". Predictably the deer herds exploded (from 3,000 to 100,000) and had to be slaughtered on masse in the 1930's and 40's, as they were starving and had completely destroyed the range. So much for man being a great wildlife manager. Fortunately we can also learn from our mistakes.

 

Most of the objections to wolves are, like the negative posts here, unintelligible and incoherent. Wolves are ultimately good for everyone, except maybe some marginal, dub T welfare ranchers.  But even they can be compensated for any losses, so the objections are really visceral ingrained hatred of any large top-tier predator.

 

For the record, I have a BS in Zoology from Northern Arizona University, along with a Doctorate in Veterinary Medicine. Not a wildlife biologist.

Edited by imix, 29 November 2014 - 04:30 PM.

[Casa Escarlata Robles Too]

I enjoyed your comments.

Nice to hear some good written about them.

Frank

[Smokecreek1]

I enjoyed your comments.

Nice to hear some good written about them.

Frank

 

2x, maybe 3x that Frank!  Me thinks, the wolf has been part of the natural environment allot longer than man-something that some folks seem to have never learned.

 

Smoke

[35whelen]

sorry  I have bad carpl tunnel these last few weeks its been real bad

  your right hate wolves  seen how they kill  not just for food these are canadian wolves not American  they have destroyed much here moose about gone elk numbers low   when they get a foot hold eles were you will see what I mean

[35whelen]

I know about the kAIBAB  not only were the wolves killed but lions as well  but what your not saying is there was no hunting either all wild life has to be manage which you should have mentioned  how do I KNOW this my dad was there at that time  before moving to Nevada  as  for your  degreees we have them up here to myself included

[timg]

I live in sw Montana and spend a lot of time outdoors, before the the wolves  you would see a lot of elk, deer ,moose now your lucky to see an elk or moose there use to be thousands of elk migrating out of Yellowstone park now your lucky to see a few hundred moose are a rarity I have seen wolves kill amoose calf and then leave never to return (set up trail cams for a week) I have talked to people who have seen the same thing in my opinion they should be removed and let the deer elk and moose population come back. just my opinion.

[idahoron]

I watched the video. To be honest I was disappointed that the people that made the movie didn't know the difference between an elk and a deer. But I would like a chance to explain why some of us in Idaho and other states don't find the wolf as warm and fuzzy as some of you guys. 

Here in Idaho prior to 1995 we had some of the finest big game hunting in the lower 48. Elk numbers were high moose numbers were growing and game departments were doing well. What happened was inevitable, as the numbers of wolves grew the populations of game animals were reduced. We had to make room for the new member at the table so to speak. After many years the wolf population have grown to the point that the elk and moose populations are in trouble. In northern Idaho there were several units that no moose were harvested in more than 5 years.  That was the catalyst for the Idaho fish and game to stop moose hunting in several units. In other units elk hunts were reduced and some hunts were closed. Some will say that was great!

 

 Idaho is a state that the F&G department only receives money from Licenses and the sale of tags. No general tax dollars are given to the Idaho F&G. When the game animal numbers were reduced by the wolves, the next thing that happened was the non resident hunters left, and they never came back. Those hunters spent a lot of money in the state. Resident hunters that had several years of poor "luck" stopped hunting. What happened next was no surprise to many. The F&G is in desperate need of money. This year the conservation officers in the Magic Valley region were held down to only 2000 miles for the month of October. In the South West region they only had 1500 miles they could drive. Well the poachers went wild this fall, but that was not all. Fishermen, hunters and wildlife watchers are also affected by the lost income due to the wolves. Without funds, projects for game and nongame alike have went to a as needed basis. Even the sage grouse are being affected by the lost income from wolves. No money coming in means no money for biologists to spend to do research on sage grouse or any other animal for that matter. 

 

I have told others that are non hunters and "wildlife advocates" that what they need to do to help is write checks to the F&G. Replace money that the wolves have removed. I spend about 300 dollars a year on tags for me and my family. If people that love wolves will match my spending then the F&G will remain solvent. But what I hear is " I donate to HSUS" or "I won't donate to a organization that kills animals". I am not a wolf lover, but I don't want them exterminated. They do have a place but that place is one that we must manage and we must do so to protect game numbers and our western hunting heritage. 

 

I enjoy reading the threads here about camping, and campers. I like to read about trips others have taken.  After seeing some of the view and condescending tone from some of the people on this thread I wish I had never opened this thread. Many of you are on the other side of the fence than I am on. That is a fence that I feel is a divide between right and wrong. While you have your opinions, and your ideas the fact is wolves are going to bankrupt game departments. Without game departments there will be no game to hunt or to view. Poachers and predators will remove any chance to see the game animals we all love.  Well Known Biologist valerius geist, wrote years ago that the effort to manage wolves is lost. Here is a interesting view of wolves from a biologist. 

 

http://www.outdoorhu...valerius-geist/

[billharr]

Idahoron I am on your side of the fence. The group HSUS is a lobby organization for PETA and has cost local SPCA chapters money because people have gave to HSUS thinking they are helping animals when they are not.  I have not hunted in over 40 years, just not my thing but have many friends who do. Fish and Game has done a great job of managing wildlife, IMO. In CA a group got together passed a law outlawing the hunting of mountain lions. They are now showing up in the suburbs and are decimating the mountain goats.  

[idahoron]

Bill, I read an article that was produced by the Yellowstone park officials. They are wanting to remove Mountain Goats from Yellowstone. In the article they said that Mountain goats were no more native to yellowstone than Hungarian partridges. There is something wrong with the thinking that we need Canadian grey wolves in the park and surrounding states but no Mountain goats in the park.  I am disgusted by it all.