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Opened Turnbuckles


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#151 ETAV8R

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 07:54 AM

I'll chime in with my experiences.

I've got the stable mats between the metal tie-down bars mounted to the bed/frame of the Tacoma. On top of that is the Tacoma bed mat. The turnbuckles I have are the cheaper looking ones from FWC. My camper/truck have done hundreds of miles of off-road travel and the turnbuckles are always loose upon arrival to any given destination. I put wingnuts on top, not the nylock type, and they don't do too much to stop the loosening.

The following turnbuckles have been in my cart for some time but don't state the rating from what I can see.

http://www.amazon.co...d=A9HNRUVYNT2TE


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#152 DonC

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 04:24 PM

I heard back from FWC today re which turnbuckles Stan recommended/provided to Captm as he described in post #50.  They are the Torklift S9012.


Edited by DonC, 20 April 2016 - 01:21 AM.

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#153 craig333

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 10:33 PM

Always loose? Mine are rarely loose and I don't have a mat. Do need to check as rarely certainly doesn't mean never and I have lost one (luckily three still hold pretty well). 


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#154 kmcintyre

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 11:00 PM

Ok, I decided after all this talk, to upgrade my turnbuckles to these.  I tried to plan ahead knowing it'd be a bit more difficult to get the nut and pin in and it was.  I over-thought it.  Really not that difficult once you have the eyelets turned a bit towards the camper. 

 

Never mind... I can't remember how to post a picture but I used heavier duty 1/2" drop forged turnbuckles that have a "U" on the end of each with a bolt and cotter pin that keeps the nut from coming off.

 

BTW, why isn't there just an icon that allows you to add a photo or am I missing it?


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#155 NRVhawk

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 01:04 AM

Hey, guys, I'm a noob here, and this is my first post, but I've been following discussions on WTW over the past several months as I figured out what I want in a camper.  Right now I'm waiting on a Hawk which should be delivered sometime next month.  I've learned a lot from all of the discussions here.
 
The posts about using climbing slings to tie down the camper unlocked some old memories.  When I was in college, I did a lot of caving (the geology of the area I live in is karst  and like swiss cheese).   At first, I had to learn how to rig ropes for rapelling into deeper parts of the cave.  Often that involved putting a sling around a column or knob, and then hanging the rope from the sling.  When a load is put on the rope, it makes the junction between the rope and the sling look like the letter Y (where the two arms at the top of the Y are the sling arms, and the vertical line of the Y is the rope).  The older, wiser cavers always taught that the angle between the arms of the Y should never be greater than 120 degrees.  Above that, the tension on the arms of the sling will exceed the weight of the caver hanging on the rope.
 
Shortly after that, I wound up taking a class in statics, where you learn to analyze the force on a structure using trig and vectors.  Applying what I learned confirmed what the older cavers taught.  In fact, the analysis shows that if the angle between the sling arms is 150 degrees, then the tension on the sling arms is about double that on the rope.
 
The same principle applies to turnbuckle tie-downs.   If the turnbuckles are mostly vertical, then a horizontal force applied to the camper can generate some pretty large tensile forces in the turnbuckle.   For example, if some motion results in a horizontal acceleration of 0.1 g of a 1500 lb camper relative to the truck bed, then a lateral force of F=ma = 149 lbf is generated.  If the turnbuckle is inclined 30 degrees from the vertical, a tensile force of 149/sin30 = 298 lbf is felt by the turnbuckle - not too far from the 350 lbf rating of the FWC turnbuckle.  Seems to me that it wouldn't be hard to see more than 0.1 g acceleration when off-roading.
 
The turnbuckles won't necessarily take the full acceleration load, though.  If the camper is resting against the side of the truck bed in the direction of the acceleration, then the bed side will share some of the force.   If there's a rubber bed mat and the camper doesn't slide over it, then some of the force will be taken up by the bed mat.
 
Anyway, check my numbers and my reasoning.  Structural mechanics is not my field.
 
I tend to agree with the opinion expressed in posts here that you'd rather have the turnbuckle fail than the truck bed.  I'll be interested to see how they mount my Hawk to my aluminum bed 2015 F150.  When I stand or walk in the bed of that truck, there's a slight amount of give - doesn't feel as solid as a steel bed.
 
If I find some time after getting my camper, I might put some accelerometers on the truck and camper and some strain gages on the turnbuckles and run those into an Arduino datalogger just to see what kind of forces they see in use.

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#156 kmacafee

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 01:32 PM

I have a Tacoma with the Composite bed so tying to that alone was not an option.  I have a friend with the new F150 and I would be concerned about bolting a camper down thru that as well.  Check and see if FWC is planning mounting plates for the F150 similar to what they have for the Tacoma.  The plates bolt directly to the frame and are solid.


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#157 NRVhawk

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 02:53 PM

  Check and see if FWC is planning mounting plates for the F150 similar to what they have for the Tacoma.  The plates bolt directly to the frame and are solid.

 

Good idea.  Will do.


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#158 DonC

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Posted 25 April 2016 - 01:12 AM

I know most of the discussion here has been about the strength of turnbuckles, and I have broken one myself, but I've broken three of the single bolts holding the forged eye bolt on the camper side.

 

So, after breaking three of these on my 2012 Fleet

 

IMG_1763.jpg

 

I heard about the new stainless steel brackets held by three bolts instead of one (and the same size).  So Roy at FWC helped with my order and I installed this weekend.

 

IMG_1752.jpg

 

IMG_1762.jpg

 

 

I also ordered the beefier turnbuckles recommended by Stan to Captn, Forklift S9012, so after I get those installed this upgrade will be complete.

 

This was the first time I've crawled under my camper since I bought it new in 2012, as it is on full-time.  I was really happy with how everything looked, basically like new.  I guess it helps to live in southern Calif.  I also wondered if the stresses that broke the bolts also stressed the plywood around the eyebolt, but it also looked perfect.  


Edited by DonC, 25 April 2016 - 05:49 PM.

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#159 Kodachrome

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Posted 25 April 2016 - 02:48 AM

I have had zero issues with the turnbuckles themselves breaking or failing but have busted 4 elevator bolts on the camper side of the mounting equation over the years. So I not only check torque on the TB's but totally reset them to the proper setting once a month or after arriving at my destination. 

 

In addition to a full set of spare elevator bolts, I also carry two motorcycle tie downs and spare hardware to secure the camper front jack brackets via the tie downs to my rock sliders in case I really need it ( saved my rear in Death Valley ). 

 

To be honest, I think I would rather have an easy to replace elevator bolt fail than any other part of the equation. I think the way these campers attach to the truck bed is very "1980"...both FWC and ATC should be looking at a frame to frame mounted, shock absorbing system that bolts to the frame under the truck bed and uses top notch hardware. 

 

These campers cost between 10-25K depending on make, model and features, it's completely *insane* to me that all that weight is relying on less than $100 in hardware. I admit, these are, thus far, easy field fixes for me, especially since I can now access all 4 elevator bolts ( access holes for left side on cabinets ). But it would be better structurally to consider an approach to mounting these campers to the trucks they are in that reflects the age we are in, 2016...not 1980.

 

My 2 cents...


Edited by Kodachrome, 25 April 2016 - 02:59 AM.

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#160 craig333

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Posted 25 April 2016 - 04:28 AM

Looks similar to the fix I did for my failure. If we just stuck to paved roads I'm sure there'd be no problem.


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