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Three new National Monuments in California


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#41 billharr

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Posted 25 February 2016 - 04:10 PM

People are the problem. 

 

cartoon,environmentalism,illustration,po

 

I have camped around the Utica/Union Lake are since 1965. Long time but the change has been drastic. PG&E once maintained the road for access to Spicer's. This was a 4x4 or motorcycle road only.  New road cut in the 70' allowing 2 wheel drive access to Spicer's. Soon the road to Utica / Union was smoothed from 4 wheel drive to allow 2 wheel drive access. With every change used was increased. Slick Rock road was changed from a OHV trail to a licensed vehicle road only, restricting an area I had used since 1965. Several years ago campgrounds were installed at Utica / Union. Area's were closed for camping that had been used for years. Hell there is even a 20 minute parking sign by Utica Lake. 

 

Edit found my picture

med_gallery_1903_342_4337641.jpg

 

The NM will change use of the area, how to be determined. 


Edited by billharr, 26 February 2016 - 08:44 PM.

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#42 Foy

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Posted 25 February 2016 - 06:25 PM

As another WTW'er who has never lived more than 140 miles from the Atlantic Ocean, I follow events and news pertaining to Gummint land in the West with a certain perspective and a great interest.  Over the decades since the early 1970s I've observed:

 

  • Consistent complaints from Western states about how Federal lands are managed and about the mere fact that the Federal Gummint owns X% of their state.

 

  • Regular reference to legislation or other actions having the goal of "taking it back". 

 

  • Neither of the above ever gaining traction in Congress or generating much support/sympathy from non-Westerners.

 

  • Substantial, material, and regular use of Executive Branch law to establish new controls on Federal lands, principally declarations related to NMs.  Chief Executives from both parties tend to do this in their lame duck periods.

 

  • Constant debate concerning mining, oil/gas development, and logging on Gummint lands. 

 

As Bill humorously notes above, I firmly believe "we are our own worst enemies", but in a somewhat expanded sense than relates only to abusers of government lands.  It appears to this Easterner that virtually any proposal to mine, drill, or cut timber from the Western public lands is met with a storm of activists' protests decrying the adverse impacts on the environment/wildlife habitat/water quality.  While nobody, including this former mining geologist, wants a return to the bad old days of unmitigated damage caused by natural resource extraction activities, we seem to have lost the fact that to make an omlette, some eggs must be broken.  The mere fact that most of us sleep at night in a heated or cooled structure, and don't go to bed hungry, requires some disturbance of the soils, forests, and waters. And we also seem to have lost the fact that, like it or not, the US Gummint stole the Western States from the Native Americans, the French, and the Spanish fair and square, and large portions of the population are best served by generation of income from those assets thus acquired. 

 

With this in mind, when some folks see virulent protests against a mine or an oil well outside of, but in the "viewshed" of a National Park or NM, they see a pushing of the envelope and wonder just what the Gummint is supposed to do with valuable public resources if they can't be developed within certain areas or even within sight of certain areas. It's also almost amusingly ironic to see considerable acreage encouraged to be removed from the green energy equation by Congressional representatives of the very state which mandates generation of substantial portions of their enormous energy consumption requirements from renewable sources.  Back here in the East, the Audubon Society led the charge to ban driving on beaches within the Cape Hatteras National Seashore (an NPS asset).  The argument was that shorebird nesting sites and sea turtle nesting sites were disturbed by surf-fishermen's, surfer's, and beach-goer's vehicles.  And they were absolutely correct about that.  Missing from their talking points was the simple fact that over 99% of the East Coast beaches are off limits to motorized vehicles, have been for decades, and, correspondingly the very few miles  accessible within the Cape Hatteras and Cape Lookout NS units are the sole access point for vehicle-borne beach users.  The restrictions at Cape Hatteras which resulted from settlement of the lawsuit filed by the Audubons, et al, are severe, getting worse, and are now spreading to Cape Lookout. One result is that the Audubons, as fine of a conservation organization as there is, is seen regionally as "elitist bullies from California and New York" who have foisted their views as to how NC's beaches can be enjoyed upon everybody else. 

 

All of this just to suggest that there are other ways by which we may be "loving our public lands to death".  Large portions of the population see zealous opponents of development of public natural resources under any circumstances as obstructionists.  Similarly, locking up lands such that only a very few have any opportunity to see, touch, and experience them is seen as elitist.  I think they have some meat to their arguments, and we'd be collectively well-advised to consider how strict preservationists' positions are seen by others, since we ultimately need to be able to work with others for the greatest common good.

 

Foy


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#43 highz

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Posted 25 February 2016 - 08:06 PM

With a growing mobile population there will be more human abuse resulting in more restrictions. It is unavoidable, no matter who administers the land, or whether it is recreational abuse or extractive. There will also be more conflicts between competing interests. We have to accept that as a consequence of overpopulation and consumerism. However....

 

I firmly believe that you will keep more opportunity for recreation in federally protected public lands, including national monuments. Why do I believe this so strongly? Check for yourselves the different western states' land trust websites. Here in New Mexico, to legally hike on state public trust land I have to send in $25 per year for a permit. Camping is not allowed without permission from the lessee, and no open fires or alcohol are allowed. No off-roading allowed.  If public lands are transferred to the states, I'll bet dollars to donuts you will eventually only be camping in developed campgrounds in state parks. State lands are not historically public lands. They are grazing and extractive revenue sources. National monuments, on the other hand, help keep lands public.

 

Our Rio Grande Del Norte National Monument was formed a few years ago from BLM land and is administered by the BLM. You can still hike, hunt, camp and fish just like before the monument designation. This land is now protected for recreation, and the neighboring towns supported the designation because it protects their tourism $$$.

 

All the dispersed campsites and OHV trails in New Mexico are on federal public land. No permit required here. Every National Forest district has a recreation officer and staff. Recreation is part of their mandate. Yes, there are some restrictions in heavily used areas and wilderness, but they are not arbitrary. The worst restrictions are all on state land, because they are intended to generate income and  protect the lessee, not the public.


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#44 Advmoto18

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Posted 25 February 2016 - 09:52 PM

Well penned Foy!


Edited by Advmoto18, 26 February 2016 - 03:39 PM.

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South Carolina Low Country.  


#45 Smokecreek1

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Posted 25 February 2016 - 11:41 PM

I agree with you highz, but Foy has his points too! Back east they don't have many places to play and it sounds like they have loved to death those places where they can, and sometimes we seem to be doing that same thing here.  There is only so much public land out here, and Congress has unloaded a whole bunch of seemingly unworkable and incompatible laws and mandates on the land managers. When I first came into  BLM, it used to manage under what was called the concept of multi-use: all resources are supposed to get a hunk of the action and work together to somehow manage all these Public Lands.  Needless to say learning to work together as a team of competing interests for the good of the whole was probably harder than implementing all the mandates! I should mention here that I was very lucky were I worked, and I loved every moment  and despite all the problems, we really did try to do our jobs.

 

Over the years the name has changed, but that concept has pretty much stayed in place,with the Dems expanding the protective side of the new laws and the GOP, trying to restrict them.  One good thing did happen thou, in the long run, it opened up the process more  to the general public, not just the old primary users of the land-the exploiters, the land managers and the preservationists who had always treated as it was their own land!  Now everyone has a chance to add their two cents in. So back to my main pitch in this thread, this is your land, so take part in helping to manage it because if you don't someone else  will and maybe those worries of paved roads and expensive campgrounds and no place to play may come true.

 

Smoke
 


Edited by Smokecreek1, 26 February 2016 - 12:01 AM.

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#46 longhorn1

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Posted 26 February 2016 - 02:27 PM

This is a very enlightening post.  Guys thanks for the posts and for the passion.  Unfortunately the midwest and Indiana don't have these awesome places to visit.  So hopefully when full retirement occurs in the next 2-3 years, I will get to travel to all points west. jd


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#47 Stalking Light

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Posted 26 February 2016 - 07:18 PM

It seems ALEC is involved in the land transfer issue, no real surprise there though.


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#48 PaulT

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Posted 27 February 2016 - 12:03 AM

This thread is at a strategic tipping point. The ALEC link above is to a very left wing political organization that opposes ALEC and not ALEC itself. Everyone is entitled to their political opinion, but unless another wolf vs rancher discussion is desired, there is little value in going down this particular rabbit hole. IMHO.

YMMV,
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#49 Stalking Light

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Posted 27 February 2016 - 01:06 AM

I didn't intend to imply I was linking to ALEC, sorry you got that impression. It's just a story about their involvement in public land issues.
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#50 PaulT

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Posted 27 February 2016 - 01:20 AM

No problem, Charlie. Those of us that appreciate this forum have much in common in love of the outdoors, experiencing it in our chosen camping modes, and in sharing it here (especially, the great photography). However, it is apparent that we WTW'ers come at other issues from both similar and different viewpoints. I am inundated with political ideology in other media. This forum is a wonderful respite from the political mess that is so hard to avoid, especially this year. :)

Paul
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