21 replies to this topic

[flinchlock]

I have discovered that my Sure Power 1314 separator does actually use power in at least one case. Others? I have no idea.

With the camper NOT connected to the truck, there is approximately .75 amps being drawn by the 1314. (My
Interstate DCM0075 battery has about a 12.94 volt charge.)

After a few calls to Sure Power, "This is normal", because the 1314 can not see the main battery. According to 1314 specification PDF, once the battery drops below 12.7 volts (the Drop Out voltage), the current flow should stop. But I do not really want to discharge my new battery to test this.

FWIW, the Sure Power installation instruction PDF says, "1. Mount the Battery Separator in a convenient location near the main battery bank."

So, I guess I will probably install a battery cutoff switch to make sure there is NO current flowing while the camper is in my garage months and months at a time.

I would very much appreciate any insight, suggestions, comments, error corrections about this.

Mike

[Dave Johnson]

I have a 1315, not yet installed. So I just went out and tested mine. (The 1315 is supposed to turn on if EITHER the aux battery OR the main battery charging system is above 13.2 volts.)

If I have over 13.2 volts, on the either battery side, the relay energizes, connecting both batteries, and drawing .7Amps.

If I lower the voltage slowly, the relay drops out at 12.8 volts.

All this is confirmed by the spec sheet that came with the unit. So, I would say it's operating normally.

***** That's not to say I like it. *****
Energizing a relay at 13.2 volts is fine when charging, and a .7 amp draw is no problem.

But draining the battery (down to 12.8 v) with .7 amp when just sitting there is downright stupid. I can imagine the guys with solar, turning on the solenoid and losing 50% of their energy to a stupid solenoid. I'm going to work on this.

Now, for a solution. A simple push button switch, that opens the ground wire when pushed should do the trick. Once the relay drops out, only 13.2 volts from the main battery will re-energise it. And by the way, there is also a .01 amp draw for the electronics (on mine). So removing the ground will stop that too.

[flinchlock]

THANKS DAVE! :thumb:

Thank you for confirming what I was seeing!

PDF files from Sure Power regarding the 1314 & 1315 Battery Separators...

- "Installation Instructions" dated 05/08 that now has a 10A fuse in the black ground lead...
download from here => http://www.surepower...pdf/180074d.pdf

- "Specification Outline" dated 7/16/08...
download from here => http://www.box.net/shared/77wb4epc88

Retired 2002, living and loving it.

I can beat that... 12/10/1999 and I was "only" 51 1/2 years old.

Mike

[flinchlock]

I just got off the phone with my 3rd call to Sure Power Tech Support.

At first he said the 1314 will not have current flow... "Can't happen" and later he changed his mind.

He also was very insistent about putting in the new 10 Amp fuse in the ground wire to see if that would help.

He also said the Drop Out voltage was about 12 1/4 volts. But the latest "Specification Outline" says the Drop Out voltage is 12.7 volts ±2% (that would be 12.446 to 12.954 volts).

I told him many many times all I have is a battery, two wires, and the separator. He asked me where I had the amp meter connected. I told him in the ground wire to the battery negative. He said I need to measure the current on the positive side. For the love of the god of your choice, it is a SERIES circuit and it will make no [bad word] difference where the current is measured!

Mike

[Dave Johnson]

Mike,
That's not tech support, the guy obviously doesn't understand electricity.

A 10 amp fuse obviously will make no difference, as well as moving the ammeter.

When you disconnect the ground wire, the relay will drop out, no current flow.
Battery voltage is 12.94 volts.
When you reconnect the ground wire, does the relay energize immediately, or is there a time delay?

Mine will not energize until I get to 13.2 and there is a noticeable delay. The delay gets shorter with higher voltage.

Another thing bothers me about your separator, the 1314 is not supposed to turn on when the aux battery is above 13.2 volts, that's the 1315. If it's wired properly, I think their voltage sensing circuit is damaged.

[flinchlock]

That's not tech support, the guy obviously doesn't understand electricity.

TRUE

A 10 amp fuse obviously will make no difference, as well as moving the ammeter.

TRUE

When you disconnect the ground wire, the relay will drop out, no current flow.

TRUE

Battery voltage is 12.94 volts.

TRUE

When you reconnect the ground wire, does the relay energize immediately, or is there a time delay?

NO DELAY

Mine will not energize until I get to 13.2 and there is a noticeable delay. The delay gets shorter with higher voltage.

OK

Another thing bothers me about your separator, the 1314 is not supposed to turn on when the aux battery is above 13.2 volts, that's the 1315. If it's wired properly, I think their voltage sensing circuit is damaged.

According to "Specification Outline" http://www.box.net/shared/77wb4epc88 the Engagement voltage is 13.2 ±2% (that would be 12.936 to 13.464 volts). So, maybe since my battery has 12.94 volts (pretty close to the 12.936), maybe mine is OK???

Mike

[Dave Johnson]

According to "Specification Outline" http://www.box.net/shared/77wb4epc88 the Engagement voltage is 13.2 ±2% (that would be 12.936 to 13.464 volts). So, maybe since my battery has 12.94 volts (pretty close to the 12.936), maybe mine is OK???

Mike

Mike,
The engagement voltage is supposed to be on the main battery side, not the aux side, (on a 1314). (Paragraph on top beside the picture of the gadget.)

I think yours is malfunctioning. Like the "Auxiliary Start" circuit thinks it is being actuated. And without a delay, something is fishy..

Do you have a switch on the "Auxiliary Start" (Start Signal) ?
If not, then you could remove the nuts that attach the control module to the coil, take the module off, and bend the tab that attaches to the aux battery terminal. Reattach the other 3 and you are good to go. (No voltage to control module.)

But this still means that, in normal operation, it will charge your batteries, then stay on. Draining both your batteries, with the .7 amp draw. Until it drops out. Not what I want.

I have some ideas on other fixes, a diode in the ground leg 1N4001 would raise the apparent voltage by ~.6 volts.

[flinchlock]

The engagement voltage is supposed to be on the main battery side, not the aux side, (on a 1314). (Paragraph on top beside the picture of the gadget.)

Yup, I forgot about that.

I think yours is malfunctioning.

Yes, I am thing that also.

Like the "Auxiliary Start" circuit thinks it is being actuated. And without a delay, something is fishy..

Do you have a switch on the "Auxiliary Start" (Start Signal) ?

NO, only the two positive 10 AWG wires and one negative ground wire.

If not, then you could remove the nuts that attach the control module to the coil, take the module off, and bend the tab that attaches to the aux battery terminal. Reattach the other 3 and you are good to go. (No voltage to control module.)

Mine should be under warranty... only had camper 39 days.

But this still means that, in normal operation, it will charge your batteries, then stay on. Draining both your batteries, with the .7 amp draw. Until it drops out. Not what I want.

Same here.

I have some ideas on other fixes, a diode in the ground leg 1N4001 would raise the apparent voltage by ~.6 volts.

Dave, Let us know how that works. (I have to put a 10.7 ohm resistor in the ground lead to keep my 1314 from energizing.)

I did some additional testing with my truck connected to the camper. I connected my amp meter in the separator ground lead so I could see if the coil was or was not energized.

Truck    Relay     Camper
Batt     Amps      Batt
======   ======    ======
12.78v   .56 amps  12.88v     Truck not running
13.99v   .60 amps  13.78v     Truck running

My 1314 ALWAYS draws current = DEFECTIVE.

Mike

P.S. My Craftsman MultiMeter: DC Volts ±0.7% , DC Current ±2.0%

[Dave Johnson]

My 1314 ALWAYS draws current = DEFECTIVE.

Mike

Mike,
I agree it's DEFECTIVE.

Time to call Marty or Ben. Last time I was there, they had several 1314's.

My playing in the lab led me to two possible ways to fool a Sure Power battery separator.
By placing a resistor in the ground line, I was able to change the hysteresis and get the 1315 to turn off at a higher voltage. I think I'll add one, so it will turn off at 13.00 volts.
The diode also works, boosting the turn on to 13.8 v (+.6 v) and turn off to 13.4 v (+.8 v), while this is probably OK, it's a bit high IMHO, for my unit, which seems to be set for low end of spec for turn on, and high end for turn off.

Dave

[benburnett]

Mike,

If you need a new separator, just give us a call and I will send one right out to you.

Ben