78 replies to this topic

[Advmoto18]

I owned two sets of the BFG KO on my now sold 2003 F-250.  They were great tires.  Close to 50K on each set.  Just before I sold my '03, I installed Toyo Open Country A/T IIs.  What a difference in all aspects of driving, both highway and gravel roads.  The Toyo Open Country were even better than the KOs to my surprise.

 

So when it came time to consider new, larger tires and smaller diameter wheels for my 2016 F-350, I was naturally leaning towards the KO2s on 18" wheels.  The new truck came with 20" wheels which look good, but, don't offer a very pleasant ride off road due to much shorter sidewall tires.   Naturally, I assumed the KO2s were upgraded versions of the KOs.  A fellow WTW member and I started trading info. He had installed the KO2s on his F-350 work truck and they were rapidly wearing out around 15K miles!

 

That got me to doing more research,, and sure enough, BFG, did something to the KO2 rubber recipe that drastically reduced KO2 life span compared to the previous KO version.

 

All the while I was looking for tires, I was also looking for a 2.5" leveling kit v a lift kit for my new F-350.  One of the better after-market suspension component manufacturer is Sage Carli.  Carli Suspension gladly shares a lot of R&D info they develop, including tire information.  Most is published on their blog.  One of the more interesting things to be discerned from Carli's information, Load E tires, across the size range, perform differently if installed on a 3/4 - 1 ton truck.  Heavy trucks, the 3/4 ton and up behave quite differently on tires when loaded vs unloaded compared to the 1/4 and 1/2 ton trucks.

 

To cut to the chase, Carli found Toyo tires performed better on road and off-road then most all other tires.  Also, Toyo offers more information on tire inflation than any other tire manufacturer (light truck tire chart is the gray/white chart, not blue/white).  Toyo recognizes light trucks will carry varying weight loads.  Further, Toyo recognizes their LT tires are used under varying conditions and therefore offers plenty of information in their tire inflation charts so you get the front and rear tire inflation psi spot on for your axle weight.  Not only does this give you the most compliant ride, it will enhance your tires life span.  Simply airing up to the cold temp, placarded max tire psi on the tire or door jam is getting you neither the most comfortable ride or max tire life span.  Those placards are lawyer placards so you can not sue the tire and truck manufacturers when things go wrong when you deviate from the placarded information.

 

Tacoma and half ton truck owners can take advantage of the Toyo tire inflation charts as well.  It just that the perceivable difference in laden v unladen psi will not likely be as noticeable as on the heavy trucks. 

Edited by Advmoto18, 29 January 2017 - 03:50 PM.

[craig333]

Running the Open Country M/Ts was a poor choice for my truck. Looked good but didn't ride well and had poor longevity. 

 

Interesting read on Carlis site. Really low tire pressures makes me wonder if those would work if I had a Carli suspension. 

[Advmoto18]

Running the Open Country M/Ts was a poor choice for my truck. Looked good but didn't ride well and had poor longevity. 

 

Interesting read on Carlis site. Really low tire pressures makes me wonder if those would work if I had a Carli suspension. 

 

MTs are Toyo's most aggressive tread pattern.  Not sure I'd want them on any truck I run on the highway >50% of the time. 

 

Toyo has a 500 mile or 45 day "Trial Offer" on their tires.  Don't like them, they will buy them back, including what you paid for mounting/balancing.

 

Toyos are designed for operating at a psi for your axle weight.  Why Toyo offers so much info regarding weight and psi.  Inflating to a random or cold temp max psi is not going to provide the best ride, traction or life span.

 

One of the interesting comments I heard from both Fox and Carli last week when I called their customer service reps, Toyo LT off-road oriented tires offer the best on-road performance IF you weigh your truck and inflate to the corresponding axle weight, not to exceed GVWR.

 

The Toyo inflation charts are truck generic, not specific to a truck with any after-market vendor suspension parts.

 

I would not call it "really low tire pressures", but rather, inflating to Toyo's calculated optimum psi based on axle weight.

 

I obtained my axle weights last week and am now running 55F/45R psi in my Michelins (80 psi is cold temp max) with the Hawk in the bed of my F-350 (11,200 GVWR).  I immediately noticed less rear wheel hop from my 20" wheels.

 

I'm having a tough time deciding on the front leveling kit.  Leaning towards a Carli kit based on reviews and their outstanding customer phone support (and I'm not even one of their customers, yet!).  But, it will have to be a kit that can easily support the additional weight from a TrailReady base front bumper and Warn 16.5Ti-S winch.

 

Based on the research of another member, I will likely go with Air Lift air bags (with built in jounce bumper) in the rear.  I will definitely be going with the Toyo Open Country tires as soon as I can make a decision on a 17" or 18" wheel.  

Edited by Advmoto18, 29 January 2017 - 05:12 PM.

[ski3pin]

Thank you ski3pin, that is good news. I am about to replace my current set of BFG KO 31/10.5/15 with Coopers, but I was going to go with the S/T Maxx's because of the 3 ply sidewall. Maybe a bit noisier, but gets great reviews as well. Your ATP's only have a 2 ply sidewall, correct? I'M not sure they are available any longer since I do not see them on the Cooper website. I was not at all happy with this particular size BFG on this particular rig.

 

cwd

 

They are/only available at Discount Tire when I bought our set

 

Cooper Discoverer ATP

[cwdtmmrs]

ski3pin, Yes I learned that after I posted. The ATP is built on the same carcass as the AT/3 with a different tread and are a Discount tire exclusive. The sidewalls for a load range "C" are 2 ply 1000 denier poly. Load rage "E" are 2 ply 1500 denier poly. I am really leaning toward the S/T Maxx for the 3 ply sidewall, 2 plies 1500 denier poly with the 3rd ply 1000 denier poly at and angle for added strength and puncture resistance.  Some of the puncture videos are amazing.

 

Advmoto18, the Toyo's look good and the 45 day trial is inviting, but I don't think the load range "C" tires have a 3ply sidewall either. I am going to call Toyo tomorrow. Ski3pin has a very similar rig to mine and running the same size tire, 31/10.5/15, which only come in a load "C", so his experience is the most pertinent for me and my rig. Maybe when my truck grows ups, it will get some real tires!

 

cwd

Edited by cwdtmmrs, 30 January 2017 - 03:35 AM.

[Bigfoot]

...So when it came time to consider new, larger tires and smaller diameter wheels for my 2016 F-350, I was naturally leaning towards the KO2s on 18" wheels.  The new truck came with 20" wheels which look good, but, don't offer a very pleasant ride off road due to much shorter sidewall tires.   Naturally, I assumed the KO2s were upgraded versions of the KOs.  A fellow WTW member and I started trading info. He had installed the KO2s on his F-350 work truck and they were rapidly wearing out around 15K miles!

 

That got me to doing more research,, and sure enough, BFG, did something to the KO2 rubber recipe that drastically reduced KO2 life span compared to the previous KO version. 

 

I would be interested in hearing more about the KO2s. User and magazine reviews generally give the KO2 excellent marks including wear. It's the top On-/Off-Road All-Terrain tire among 17 on Tire Rack's user survey. BFGoodrich (owned by Michelin) claims that the KO2 compared to the KO has 15% longer tread life on asphalt, twice the tread life on gravel, and 20% more sidewall strength. It also features a severe winter rating which is attractive to those of us in snow country. In Oregon they qualify as traction tires. Of course, with tires much depends on the individual application and how well the tires are maintained. 

[cwdtmmrs]

I called Toyo's customer relations today and THEY WOULD NOT give me any information on their tire sidewall construction! The woman said she could not release that information. Couldn't even get the number of plies. Toyo gets the "red pencil" from me.

 

In my last week of research, I have found that most tire manufacturers do not include any information about number of belts, plies, etc. on their tires. They just tell you how great their products are. Have we become that disinterested as consumers?

 

cwd

[Advmoto18]

Strange...because per US DOT regulation, the answer to your question is stamped on every tire approved for sale in the US.

 

My Michelin Load "E" 275/65R20

Note the 2 sidewall plies, but, a Load "E" rating is the equivalent to 10 plies.  Rating number and actual number of sidewall plies are completely independent.  

Edited by Advmoto18, 30 January 2017 - 09:15 PM.

[JaSAn]

Strange...because per federal regulation, the answer to your question is stamped on every tire approved for sale in the US by US DOT.

. . .

 

Note the 2 sidewall plies, but, a Load "E" rating is the equivalent to 10 plies.  Rating number and actual number of sidewall plies are completely independent.  

 

The ply rating is compared to cotton plies (from way back in the dark ages):

 

http://www.sttc.com/...info/ply-rating

 

jim

[cwdtmmrs]

Advmoto18, I don't want to de-rail this thread more than it already has from sky3pin's original intention, but I know about the information on a tire's sidewall. I was just trying to save some leg time looking at tires. The information isn't readily available on the websites and the customer service dept at Toyo was I stated in the above post. Cooper's customer dept wasn't much better.Crazy. Anyone can buy a tire and cut it apart and analyze the construction.

 

cwd