Heating Options for FWC Fleet High Elevation Winter

[powderhoundd]

Hello WTW Community!

I recently purchased a 2018 Toyota Tacoma TRD OR and 2014 FWC Fleet from a family friend (we've got upgraded suspension and airbags so I'm all set there) and I am looking to do some upgrades before heading into the mountains in January for a couple of months.

I've got the basic Fleet model (no stove/sink/fridge,etc.) with side dinette but I am looking to put in some sort of heating system (along with solar, basic sink, external ski rack, and battery upgrade). I've read a lot about the Propex heaters and they seem to be a good option, but I'd like to avoid lugging a propane tank around if at all possible. The diesel heaters seem to be a reliable option but I'm having trouble finding any information on external mounting and efficiency of the machine in higher elevation.

Has anyone gone through with avoiding the Atwood furnaces and installing their own heaters? Should I avoid this all together and go for a Camco Wave 3 and put my money into the other projects?

Thanks in advance for any and all advice. I feel like I'm at the bottom of a very large mountain of information but I'm excited to learn while building my own space!

 

[Vic Harder]

Don’t go the wave heater option, unless you like condensation? I have installed 2 proper heaters, and they work great. Not what I call quiet, but efficient and reliable.

I’ll likely go diesel next time, since I have diesel trucks.

 

[ski3pin]

Don’t go the wave heater option, unless you like condensation? I have installed 2 proper heaters, and they work great. Not what I call quiet, but efficient and reliable.

I’ll likely go diesel next time, since I have diesel trucks.

We've used a Wave 3 in our small All Terrain camper for 10 years. It adds a considerable amount of condensation and I would not recommend. We have an Atwood. It is dependable but we'd prefer a more constant, steady heat and not the hot and cold as it goes on and off. We are looking for alternatives.

 

[Jsoboti]

I would go with a diesel heater. There's endless information on them on forums, Facebook groups, and Youtube.
A lot of people have gone with the cheaper Chinese Diesel heaters, you can get them on Ebay, Amazon, Ali Express, and others. I just ordered one on Amazon to replace my stock propane furnace.

As for elevation, several of the more expensive diesel heaters are not designed for higher elevations although some companies are now selling specific models that have high altitude modes. Most of the Chinese Diesel heaters have adjustable fuel flow and air flow settings, allowing you to custom tune your heater to your specific altitude. There are A LOT of videos and forum posts about this exact subject.

The Chinese heaters are considered "cheap" by some, but that is really only referring to the kit they come with. The heater itself is solid, according to several thousands of reviews on interwebs. I ordered upgraded fuel pump, lines, connectors, exhaust, muffler, intake hose. All in I've spent about $300-350 on the diesel heater and expect to get better functionality out of it than the $1000+ German ones.

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

Look at the Wallas Marine/RV diesel stove heaters. Caveat, they’re expensive, and they’re counter mounted. They will however allow air distribution via devices like the EcoFan that use a thermo electric technology, so no house current draw for the fan.

This would be best suited for a custom build like you will be doing.

 

[Vic Harder]

these look really tempting, but the price $$$ wow.

 

[Jsoboti]

Been recovering from 2 knee surgeries, I've had A LOT of time to research. Hopefully I can save anyone looking to install a diesel heater some time. Full disclosure, I haven't installed mine yet, but the parts arrived today.

Right now my plan is to remove the propane heater and instal the diesel heater in that spot. It's already vented and has power. It's also close to the propane storage, which is where I plan to put the diesel tank, although I haven't found the right one yet. The ones that come with the kits will not fit in the propane storage cubby with 1 of the propane tanks still in there.

On to the good stuff...

After 2 solid weeks of reading forums and watching YouTube, I purchased the follow items....

5kw Heater: This may be overkill, as there is a 2kw version available. I spoke with Hoopy on the phone and he likes his 5kw for his flatbed setup. Others think it may be overkill, who knows. I'll update as soon as I install and it gets cold enough. I specifically picked the heater below because of its LCD screen. The heaters with the LCD screens (some models have a rotor dial) will allow you to change the frequency of the fuel pump ie. adjusting the air/fuel ratio, which is important when camping at high altitudes. I'm usually between 8000'-9000' in the winter. If you run them on stock mixtures at high altitudes, they may run fine, but are all but guaranteed to soot up and eventually require full disassembly to clean the combustion chamber. Disclaimer: the advertised 8kw heaters are identical to the 5kw, just a gimmick. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07KMQ9VWY?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1

Fuel Pump: The stock pumps work just fine, but are loud. This replacement pump is supposed to deliver a stronger squirt of fuel, and are 3-5 dB quieter, which is significant. No adapters necessary, plug and play with the stock wiring harness supplied with the heater kit.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BFL66SMR?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

Additional Exhaust Supplies: The kit comes with about a foot or two of exhaust pipe and one muffler. Several people have reduced the exhaust noise by half by putting two mufflers in line. These mufflers are the straight through version, so there's no added back pressure. When mounting the exhaust, it must slope downwards for water to drain. The mufflers must also be oriented with the small drain holes pointed down, for drainage.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CGMB174R?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

Fuel Lines and Connectors: The heater kit MAY come with a flexible green fuel line. This is trash, throw away immediately. I purchased the kit below because it has the rigid fuel line which is required for these heaters. These pumps required rigid line that will not flex in order to adequately "squirt" the fuel over the mesh screen that surrounds the glow plug. If the fuel just trickles on to it, the fuel will not atomize correctly and you will get an incomplete burn, leading to soot build up. This kit also comes with much better connectors that are designed to not create a flat spot like a typical jubilee clamp.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09TTF7HD3?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

On/Off Switch: Seems silly, but as long as the heater is connected to power, it will have a draw of at least 0.5ish Amps. I bought this little switch so I can quickly disconnect from power when not in use. CAUTION: Do NOT manually shut down a running unit this way. If you do not let the unit run a cool down cycle by selecting "OFF" on the LCD, it will overheat and melt plastic components. I plan on hiding this switch so the unit cannot be shut off accidentally.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07XM7PBZB?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

Filter: The unit comes with a silencer for the intake that does not have a mesh screen. This should stop bugs or whatnot from crawling in. Saw someone put a straight through muffle on the intake side as well. Helped a lot with noise.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07V59T79F?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

Fuel Line Protection: Purchased this tubing to run the fuel lines through as extra chafing protection. The intake for the fuel on the heater unit is very close to the exhaust outlet. I may try and insulate with more robust material at this spot on the bottom of the heater. This tubing is not required, but also is cheap and gives piece of mind. I'll probably route through some electrical conduit where it has to pass through the camper walls.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09165YN5C?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1

Not yet purchased:
Additional hot air ducting: will probably run a splitter, with one nozzle aft in the camper, and one forward. the 5kw heater should have plenty of juice for it.

Fan intake ducting: [SIZE=14.000001px]Worth noting that Grizzly n' Bear's video of their heater install states they only have significantly reduced condensation when they used outside air at the fan intake. Most installs in vans use cabin air to blow over the hot part and provide hot air, but since Grizzly made this statement, [/SIZE]I'm[SIZE=14.000001px] going to try to pull outside air into the heater fan. Still have to figure that one out, will probably require cutting a hole in the stock furnace cover on the outside of the camper. [/SIZE]

I'll take pictures and document the install


Cheers!

 

[Big Al]

We've used Wave propane heaters for years. Never was condensation an issue because we provided proper ventilation. Just crack two windows to allow air to enter and to exit.

 

[craig333]

My wave is basically for emergencies. I'm happy with my propane heater (suburban) but if I were starting without one I'd probably go diesel. It would be nice to have more even heating but that's difficult in such a small space.

 

[Saturn949]

I have in past 2 sprinter vans with different models of Atwood's and domestic.when I started to build Raven shell for my tundra I already know that catalytic heater gives to much condensation and traditional heaters are very noisy especially in FWC as no meter how you sleep it is about 5 ft away from your ears. so I want to use propane as fuel as it is clean and no smells leaks and fuel pump ticking/woodpecker sound. My choose was Truma. It is costly but worth every penny. Auto controlled, speed variable depends on heat demand, very quiet. I install it myself, as for someone who modified 2 RVs before it took a some time to plan were to install it. so far it is located by the door at the end of camper and I sleep cross less then 3 ft away and have no issues with sound. From construction of Truma it is similar to diesel heater only no fuel pump and you don't have to clean burner. Propane usage is minimal I use 5lb and it is sipping propane.
most difficult step to make heater side vent as it require to make 3.5 in hole outside and I tried avoided aluminum camper frame.
I

 

[craig333]

Where did you get it? I thought only dealers could get them.

 

[pods8]

Where did you get it? I thought only dealers could get them.

@skipin put one in his build, I presume he got it from ATC. Not sure if they would sell one outright or just with a camper purchase?

 

[Vic Harder]

yes, curious minds want to know!

 

[rando]

The Truma heaters are available through retail channels outside the US North America. I will be by this store next week and am considering buying one:

Truma Combi 4E Water / Air Heater & Flue Kit | Caravan RV Camping

The Truma Combi 4E is designed to be the ultimate duel air and water heater on the market. The cleverly designed unit can put forth both heated air and water

www.caravanrvcamping.com.au

 

[CPT Davenport]

I have a Webasto diesel heater on my boat. It is the most quiet, efficient and consistent heater I’ve ever owned. Absolutely no condensation! If you go this route be mindful of not oversizing the heater for that space. I removed the duct from mine the went out to the cockpit. I see no reason to heat the outdoors! By doing this I minimized and restricted the out flow of the heater. If it gets too warm, and I close off one of the other vents, it overheats and shuts down.

 

[Saturn949]

Where did you get it? I thought only dealers could get them.

I got mine off of Ebay from guy in Colorado who is in RV repair and installation. The unit I got was open box and I think it had missing back cover for the controller panel with was not bothering me as it is on inside.

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

My understanding is these are gray market, and may not have a warranty. Truma has a good reputation, but I have a recall on the Truma AquaGo water heater in my travel trailer.

 

[pods8]

What an annoying business model on the customer side of things.

 

[Saturn949]

I install only heater not combo version. Yes I know I probably will not get warranty from the trauma but I do get all serial numbers and stickers for warranty cards. I agree that trauma probably would not warranty with eBay purchase as open box. I test run heater right after I got it just on the table with propane cylinder plumed directly make shure it is works and not dead on arrival.

 

[pods8]

I install only heater not combo version. Yes I know I probably will not get warranty from the trauma but I do get all serial numbers and stickers for warranty cards. I agree that trauma probably would not warranty with eBay purchase as open box. I test run heater right after I got it just on the table with propane cylinder plumed directly make shure it is works and not dead on arrival.

Frankly how would they know? A legit dealer sold off the product, right? You think they're going to chase down that serial number and ask if he installed it or just sold it loose?

Besides we're not talking about a lengthy warranty in the first place like 5 or 10yrs so who really cares unless it bricks off the bat. If so contact them and just don't acknowledge you bought it loose and installed it. My $0.02

Gray market usually refers to something bought out of the country. IE Trauma north America might not provide service/warranty for a unit bought in Australia. But the unit you have was seemingly bought through north american distribution. This kind of thing is common with sporting and camera optics. You can buy them cheaper from Japan for instance but then you have to reach out to Japan if you need service, you pay more from something sold from the north american supply chain but in turn you get to go through that supply chain when service is need.