83 replies to this topic

[eyemgh]

I ended up buying three of these: https://www.nemoequi...uct/switchback/ for under the mattress.

 

We also put Reflectix over the windows. Lastly, I replaced the thermostat with one that will tell the internal temp. It was set to cycle at a 1 degree interval and I left it there. We spent two sub-20 degree nights out this past week and those changes made an amazing difference. 

[Wallowa]

Eye,

 

Can you explain this "..I replaced the thermostat with one that will tell the internal temp. It was set to cycle at a 1 degree interval and I left it there. "....  Our Hawk thermostat registers inside temp, but I don't understand setting to a cycle at 1 degree intervals..

 

Was that sub 20 degree nights or sub -20 degrees?  Glad you folks stayed toasty!

 

Thanks...Phil

[eyemgh]

Eye,

 

Can you explain this "..I replaced the thermostat with one that will tell the internal temp. It was set to cycle at a 1 degree interval and I left it there. "....  Our Hawk thermostat registers inside temp, but I don't understand setting to a cycle at 1 degree intervals..

 

Was that sub 20 degree nights or sub -20 degrees?  Glad you folks stayed toasty!

 

Thanks...Phil

OMG...sub 20, NOT sub-minus-20. Gulp! 

 

I did spend several nights this year before the mods though in the same range and they made a BIG difference. I think I could do colder, but the heater would run non-stop and I'd need a better bag. As good as these things are, well insulated would not rise to the top of the list of advantages, even with a thermopack. 

 

Our previous thermostat was completely manual. The only way to set the cycle frequency on the heater was with an internal adjustment not calibrated in degrees, but in some sort of electrical measure that I can't remember. It was really guess and check, and ours was still way off, not firing the heater until I was wondering if I'd run out of propane. The new thermostat kicks in if it drops 1 degree. Some may hate this as they don't like frequent cycling. We personally much prefer that to freezing. We keep it at 56 when sleeping. 

Edited by eyemgh, 29 November 2020 - 02:54 AM.

[larryqp]

I spent a couple of days at 19 degrees at Guadalupe Mt NP in my 2019 Hawk shell with factory furnace. I was alone so the second nite I decided to use the dinette cushions to cover the cab and side window. In the morning there was frost on the glass behind the cushion. So I think the cushion blocked a lot of heat from escaping and I felt warmer. Could have been psychological.

 

So my plan is to buy a sheet of polyisocyanurate Rigid form which seems to not only have the best R value (6.5 per inch) but also comes with foil facing on both sides. Cut to fit and attach with velcro.

 

My thought is that I really never open the curtain on the side window, most of which is block by my National Luna chest style refrigerator, the insulation will not only help in cold weather but also block the heat from the sun on the refrigerator in the hot weather. If I want to open the window I can just remove the foam an throw it on the bed.

 

Same goes for the cab window, I'll remove it when driving but leave it in place when camping, again, I think it benefits both hot and cold weather.

 

I realize I will need to remove both to allow condensation to escape, but hoping if I make a really tight fit it will minimize condensation.

 

Does anyone see any negative to this, ie window damage? etc All thoughts appreciated. Thanks

[Wallowa]

Larry,

 

Insulation helps.  Yes, the trade off will be condensation.  What temp did you set the heater at?  Did you notice a difference in "off/on' during the night with the cushions in place?  Do you keep a roof vent open?

 

I plan to "go to school" on your suggestion and indeed will need to wipe up the condensation in the morning.  Will investigate the insulating board you referred to.  Assume you do not have plumbing containing any water.

 

Here where I live in NE corner of Oregon it regularly goes well below zero and our home has a lot of windows [double pane] with thermal pleated shades...on cold nights the next morning you will find ice on the inside bottom of the window; so, yes a dead air space will trap cold air and prevent heat escaping to the cold areas.

 

Eye...a good down bag will go a long ways to staying warm during cold nights.  In extremes I have even doubled up and used two bags, not in Hawk but in a tent.  

 

Phil

 

Ps...Our Hawk has the FWC Thermal Pack...year round.

Edited by Wallowa, 29 November 2020 - 04:48 PM.

[JaSAn]

My bed is down across the front.  I have 3/4" polyiso panels that go over the front and left side windows behind insulated curtains.  I can really tel the difference and I haven't seen any downsides except for them not being very durable.  Wrapping the edges with tape helps.

[eyemgh]

I spent a couple of days at 19 degrees at Guadalupe Mt NP in my 2019 Hawk shell with factory furnace. I was alone so the second nite I decided to use the dinette cushions to cover the cab and side window. In the morning there was frost on the glass behind the cushion. So I think the cushion blocked a lot of heat from escaping and I felt warmer. Could have been psychological.

 

So my plan is to buy a sheet of polyisocyanurate Rigid form which seems to not only have the best R value (6.5 per inch) but also comes with foil facing on both sides. Cut to fit and attach with velcro.

 

My thought is that I really never open the curtain on the side window, most of which is block by my National Luna chest style refrigerator, the insulation will not only help in cold weather but also block the heat from the sun on the refrigerator in the hot weather. If I want to open the window I can just remove the foam an throw it on the bed.

 

Same goes for the cab window, I'll remove it when driving but leave it in place when camping, again, I think it benefits both hot and cold weather.

 

I realize I will need to remove both to allow condensation to escape, but hoping if I make a really tight fit it will minimize condensation.

 

Does anyone see any negative to this, ie window damage? etc All thoughts appreciated. Thanks

 

 

Larry,

 

Insulation helps.  Yes, the trade off will be condensation.  What temp did you set the heater at?  Did you notice a difference in "off/on' during the night with the cushions in place?  Do you keep a roof vent open?

 

I plan to "go to school" on your suggestion and indeed will need to wipe up the condensation in the morning.  Will investigate the insulating board you referred to.  Assume you do not have plumbing containing any water.

 

Here where I live in NE corner of Oregon it regularly goes well below zero and our home has a lot of windows [double pane] with thermal pleated shades...on cold nights the next morning you will find ice on the inside bottom of the window; so, yes a dead air space will trap cold air and prevent heat escaping to the cold areas.

 

Eye...a good down bag will go a long ways to staying warm during cold nights.  In extremes I have even doubled up and used two bags, not in Hawk but in a tent.  

 

Phil

 

Ps...Our Hawk has the FWC Thermal Pack...year round.

 

 

My bed is down across the front.  I have 3/4" polyiso panels that go over the front and left side windows behind insulated curtains.  I can really tel the difference and I haven't seen any downsides except for them not being very durable.  Wrapping the edges with tape helps.

 

I ended up choosing Reflectix even after reading all the controversy over its R value, because I didn't want to schlep foam dust shedding sheets around. I simply wanted something that was "good enough." 

 

I'm convinced that some of the hand wringing over Reflectix is misplaced. Even if we assume an R of just over 1, that's really close to 8 inches of concrete. It has SOME conductive insulation right out of the gate. Combine that with the air spaces in the system and it goes up a bit. I linked a real world DIY study that seemed to be reasonably designed on page 2, but will share it again here. My anecdotal evidence was that it worked well enough.

 

I believe foam panels would be better, but in the parlance of my Dad ("ya gotta be worth the trouble ya cause"), not better enough to deal with storing them and the constant presence of foam. Now were I in the Wallowas (or Wyoming, eyc.), and didn't want the glorified tent experience, meaning I like to be in the camper with my coat off and don't want to rely on a zero degree bag, I think I'd dig in more deeply. Even the best panel though is far less effective if it isn't sealed against the surface and it leaves a giant pathway for drafts. 

[Wallowa]

Eye,

 

Your Dad was correct!   & Good enough is good enough.

 

Phil

 

Ps....Guadalupe Mt NP....   looks very cool!

Edited by Wallowa, 29 November 2020 - 08:36 PM.

[larryqp]

I'm plenty warm sleeping with a good down bag, its the comfort factor I want, when hanging out or getting up in the middle of the night to pee. I think I'm going to try the foam and wrap the edges with gorilla tape, not very expensive. The side window will stay in place, the cab window sheet will be stored by the side window. Probably won't carry there cab insulation except in winter.

 

I'm think on only using 1/2" thick, with an R value of a little more than 3, but shouldn't stick out much if I cut it to fit inside the metal window frame.

 

Thanks for the suggestions.

[Wallowa]

I'm plenty warm sleeping with a good down bag, its the comfort factor I want, when hanging out or getting up in the middle of the night to pee. I think I'm going to try the foam and wrap the edges with gorilla tape, not very expensive. The side window will stay in place, the cab window sheet will be stored by the side window. Probably won't carry there cab insulation except in winter.

 

I'm think on only using 1/2" thick, with an R value of a little more than 3, but shouldn't stick out much if I cut it to fit inside the metal window frame.

 

Thanks for the suggestions.

 

 

Good plan.  Get up in middle of night to pee?  Yup, like clock work.

 

What brand of foam board are you folks using?  Can you buy it online?

 

Thanks...Phil