59 replies to this topic

[buckland]

Late to this thread but not my own internal debate. Our 2011 Eagle with stove, sink, heater, solar, 2 batteries,Isotherm 65 fridge, 20 gallon water tank, and 6 gallons fuel on roof in 3 2 gal. cans. 

 

We had the Eagle set up on out 2001 4 cylinder Tacoma 4wd with an added lead and Firestone air bags, everything else stock. It did fine for 5 years on rough backwood roads, though was scary on the hills or highway ... just not enough power.

 

We bought the Chevy midsize Colorado 2.8 turbo Diesel. Small truck with a lot of torque (369 lbs) and great mileage. It has an exhaust brake as well for the steep declines that saves your disk brakes a lot of wear. We added an extra leaf, air bags to level, a sway bar as it sits high (now really nice cornering) and Bilstein 5100 shocks. We do not skimp on weight but are prudent.

 

I can not yet comment on wild backroad driving yet but will have a lot more to say after our long summer trip to AK and The YK. From the test drives I have taken I will say it feels very solid and not exaggerating when I say on the interstate or blue highways I don't even know it's there with the diesel. The cab is very comfortable. It is s smaller truck answer to power needed.  At this point I'm thinking I found my answer to our needs.  

[cwdtmmrs]

I think the service/parts issue that Tubel5000 mentions would be the deciding factor for me even if I was a bit over GVW. There are always trade offs.

 

cwd

[ntsqd]

I contend that GVW is based on brakes, and then de-rated based on whatever tires the truck is sold with. My logic behind this is that pretty much any engine can move any mass (within reason), but can the brakes stop the whole within a reasonable distance? Factor in the lawyers and the NHTSA and all of those sorts of considerations and you get a GVW that is below what the truck can actually do. So when you are ~300 lbs over the number on the label, you may not yet have hit the max performance line for that truck. Since it is not a scientific formula, but rather a bunch of Factors of Safety arbitrarily discerned and applied to some proving grounds known only number there is no way to back out what the number might have been before all of the de-rating. One approach might be to look at the GAWR's and add them rather than the GVW. IME it is normal for the GAWR's to add up to something greater than the GVW, sometimes by a significant difference.

 

Look at the difference in brakes between the various GVW's, you'll see a consistent difference there. The higher the GVW, the bigger the brakes. then pick any particular mfg and look at the size of the brakes over the years. The same GVW truck 10 years ago had smaller brakes. What I infer from that is 'A)' people are carrying more & more stuff & 'B)' we've got more idiots not paying attention to the road.

 

I have taken our 3/4t truck & camper places where I'd previously been in my '84 Xcab Yota. I've also not taken our camper places where I visited in my old '84. Not always because it wouldn't go there or fit or whatever, but because I didn't want to beat up on our camper & truck that hard to get in there. I've also taken our truck & camper places that I'd have never gone in the '84 because it just couldn't haul enough gear for my wife to be comfortable there. Might have been OK when we were younger, but not now.

Edited by ntsqd, 30 May 2017 - 01:50 AM.

[dharte]

The biggest reason to buy Toyota over the others is I like to drive my truck. I have seen a lot of the other big three being towed. Toyota is far more dependable that the rest. Fords don't get to 200,000 miles unless they are on a flat bed trailer.

Statements like this are just based on old stereotypes of crappy American cars. I have two friends that have over 300k on their Ford Superduty trucks and have never had major repairs. Sure things have gone wrong (injectors, fuel pumps, etc), but that will happen on Toyotas too. My second vehicle is a 41 year old Ford F-150 and it still runs strong. Buy the truck you want-but don't use reliability to justify the purchase.

[Bill D]

TRUE! But research is an important part of the process, becaus it

a) makes us believe we have the best possible option

it is a lot of fun to think about the rig we will once have

 

 

I agree.  I often have as much or more fun researching items as I do owning them.

To be honest though.  I think you would have to own a number of FWC truck and camper combos to finally come up with your dream solution.  A few of our forum members have had the privilege.  Most of us have not, but we're all happy campers. 

 

Enjoy your research stage.

[Tuff Guy 62]

Statements like this are just based on old stereotypes of crappy American cars. I have two friends that have over 300k on their Ford Superduty trucks and have never had major repairs. Sure things have gone wrong (injectors, fuel pumps, etc), but that will happen on Toyotas too. My second vehicle is a 41 year old Ford F-150 and it still runs strong. Buy the truck you want-but don't use reliability to justify the purchase.

 

Yep, my work truck is a 99 Ford Ranger which is exclusively used as a field vehicle, I can't kill it. Currently has over 343,000 miles with no major motor/transmission casualties. Takes a'lickin and keeps on tickin.

 

I also own three Toyotas', a Yaris, Corolla & Highlander. They're good vehicles, but IMO not any better or worse than any current "domestic" brand. In this day and age so much of the automotive technologies are built under license and shared by multiple manufacturers.

 

There's no doubt that the U.S. auto industry turned out a lot of vehicles of dubious quality from the mid 70's through the early 90's.

 

Since most of the Toyotas' sold in the U.S. are manufactured east of the Rocky Mountains, I reckon they could be considered an import brand. 

 

• Toyota Motor Manufacturing Mississippi, Inc., (TMMMS) is located in Blue Springs. Vehicle manufacture and assembly – Corolla, C-HR
• Toyota Motor Manufacturing Kentucky, Inc., (TMMK) is located in Georgetown. Engine manufacture – 2GR-FE and 2AR-FE. Vehicle manufacture and assembly – Camry, Hybrid Camry, Avalon, Avalon Hybrid, Venza, and Lexus ES.
• Toyota Motor Manufacturing Texas, Inc (TMMTX) is located in San Antonio. Vehicle manufacture and assembly – Tundra & Tacoma.
• Toyota Motor Manufacturing Indiana, Inc. (TMMI) is located in Princeton, Indiana. Vehicle manufacture and assembly – Sequoia, Sienna, Highlander & Highlander Hybrid.
• Toyota Motor Manufacturing Alabama, Inc. (TMMAL), is located in Huntsville. Engine manufacture 1GR-FE, 1UR-FE and 3UR-FE. Engines mostly for TMMTX and some TMMI.
• Toyota Motor Manufacturing West Virginia, Inc. (TMMWV), is located in Buffalo. Engine manufacture 2GR-FE, 2ZR-FE and 1AR-FE.

Edited by Tuff Guy 62, 30 May 2017 - 04:01 AM.

[idahoron]

 Buy the truck you want-but don't use reliability to justify the purchase.

 

My statement was not based  on old stereotypes of crappy American cars. It is based on what I have owned, and what my friends have owned. 

 

Dependability, and function, that is about all I look at. If you can't trust the vehicle to be reliable then it is worthless. I have owned Chevy's, and there is two kids of Chevy's. The kind that has had the intake manifold gasket replaced, and the ones that need it replaced. 

My Chevy's all needed transmissions replaced under 100,000 miles.

 

The fords I owned were full sized trucks and Rangers. They got poor millage and were not dependable. The Ranger was close to the lemon law.  My ford cars left us on the side of the road multiple times. These cars had under 100,000 miles. My parents only owned fords. Their cars in the early 1970's were used up by 100,000 miles. People replaced them before the 100,000 mile mark because they knew they would break down. The Domestic made trucks and cars I owned were in fact unreliable. 

 

Then I bought my first Toyota. It is a 88 xtra cab. I have 300,000 miles on it and it is my daily driver. I have owned it for 27 years and it has been reliable. When I am 100 miles down a two track on the desert I NEED and RELIABLE truck.

My second toy was a 96 4Runner. Again I still own that truck and I handed it to my son. Over 300,000 miles and it runs strong and is 100% dependable. I now own 7 and have given some to my kids and my wife has two and I have two trucks. 

 

 

 

 

If reliability is not a part of the equation then what is important? Payload? what good is a ultra high payload if it is on a tow truck? 

A friend of mine just bought a heavy duty 3/4 ton Dodge. It has less than 20,000 miles and he had to replace the transmission, and fuel injection system. 

I know there are good and bad with all makes. But I have never had a bad Toyota and I have had 8 and still have 7 of them. One was hit by a guy texting and was totaled. We have over a million miles on the toys I own, and they are all good reliable vehicles.

 

Where I work we have a 1999 Ford F350. It has the 10 cylinder engine. It has right at 100,000 miles. The motor mounts have been replaced 4 times. The transmission was replaced once. The seat is uncomfortable to the point of being cruel and unusual punishment. 

 

I just bought a 2016 4Runner trail edition.  I bought it because of reliability and it fits a need we have for a small SUV that is dependable. 

Resale value is without a doubt higher with Toyota and any of the others. I never sell mine but what that says is a lot of people need dependability. 

 

I could NEVER buy another vehicle from the "Big Three". The price is higher than what I paid for my house and will most likely be worthless by the time it is paid off. I don't play that game any more. 

[rotti]

Might consider a toy if they made a 3/4 ton truck. But probably wouldn't. I have had three 3/4 ton Chevys and have had excellent service from them under some extreme conditions and none of the issues you mention. It seems the new taco was rated worse or much worse for reliability by CR and there is the frame replacement issues and a plastic cargo bed.

 

Put me in the camp that believes payload matters.

 

[klahanie]

^ lol, that looks like some of the pics on the explorermagazin page that I think Tubel5000 was referring to. Safe to say more the owner's fault than the chassis. Not really a good reason to be concerned.

 

I view the whole truck and camper thing as a collection of "wants". For those who make a list, often by the third item there are competing conflicts with the first two. Some people want to buy a specific brand or model and that's their #1, everything else is secondary.

 

Now if you've had good, long term experience with a certain brand it makes sense to stick with it, all things being equal. We have a near 20 yo DD that's been an excellent car and a near 7 yo truck that hasn't had any problems.

 

As for mfr payload calculation, back in 2010 for their F350 with AT tires lineup, Ford offered a range of std GWVRs between 10,100 and 11,500#s (1,400# spread). Specific max std payloads ranged from 3760 to 4250# (490# spread). That's with same tires, same brakes and maybe just two rear spring packs (w or wo aux leaf).  Six years later the GVWR range was from 11,100 to 11,500 (only 400# spread) and the payload spread had increased to 1250#. Again same tires, brakes. During that time Ram discovered a way of considerably increasing the GVWR for diesel equipped trucks within the same lineup. In short, mfrs can manipulate the ratings for their own reasons (probably to do with sales).

 

Last word on insurance. I've never had a mechanical inspection, post accident, but I imagine it is sometimes part of an investigation, presumably warranted if the accident was serious (serious injuries or death). I such cases overloading might be determined. Whether that effected insurance coverage or not would only be part of the repercussions... No one wants be the cause an accident, especially one that causes bodily harm.

[PackRat]

Wow....from a thread dedicated to the question of being OVERWEIGHT and what truck/camper combo works or not, it's now a Toyota vs. Detroit argument.

 

1) I doubt more than 1/10th of one percent of us will EVER take ANY kind of truck with 100,000-200,000 miles out so far in the boondocks we have to be worried all the time that our "Detroit Iron" will break down so that has nothing to do with this thread.

2) Reliability vs cost? If you buy a Toyota because a Big Three costs too much, then buy a Big Three that is less than three years old with under 20,000 miles that some other camper owner used infrequently and has all the bells and whistles.

3) This isn't about how wider trucks and/or campers will restrict where you go, hell, its a big country so if Back Road "A" is going to scratch your nice new $40,000 truck and $25,000 camper then maybe you should consider Back Road "B"?

4) This thread is asking the basic question about overloading any truck. The basic response is "Well, everybody does it!" but so what, that does not make it any safer or smarter or easier on the truck when you do that.

5) Just because "The Beverly Hillbillies" made it to LA with a very overweight truck does not mean it was a good idea, even if they had helper springs, sway bars, air bags and "E" rated tires on that truck. No offense, but the phrase "putting lipstick on a pig" comes to mind here.

 

OK, maybe after you load up for a couple weeks in the bush you run across the scales to check the GVWR and the weight of each axle you discover you are OVERLOADED on the rear axle but still under the GVWR you feel that is still safe that's your business. Maybe 100 or 200 lbs won't be a problem. Then again maybe you find you are 300+ lbs over loaded on the rear axle...and you have everyone blinking their lights at you as if you had your high beams on then maybe your rig is a little bit too heavy?

 

Maybe you have each axle right at it's load capacity...then you find out you are WAY over the GVWR...is that a good idea? My '88 F-250 4x4 has a front axle capacity of 3920 lbs and a rear axle capacity of 6084 lbs...but the GVWR is 8800 lbs. Hmm, if I weigh the front and find I am right at 3920 and the rear and am right at 6084....then I am now at 10,004 lbs!!!! that is 1,200 OVER the GVWR!

 

Bad Idea! So...back to the original topic... "Overweight: Your Perspective"....I think safety overrules all other considerations here.

 

By the way, if you do go buy a new truck and then add sway bars, spring leafs or different springs or air bags....have you just voided your warrantee from the manufacturer because I think over loading is a sure way to wear out brakes, is hell on transmissions and probably may be a cause for engine problems aside from standard recall issues.

 

Aside from all that....its your truck, its your camper its your safety out there on the highway and off the highway....make wise choices my friends!