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Vic's new 2012 Puma build


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#131 Vic Harder

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Posted 10 April 2020 - 02:02 AM

Vic,

 

I cant see a reason putting a strip on the outside edge would be a problem, other than needing to adjust your roof clamps slightly.

 

I think the challenge would be in holding the ceiling material in place before adding the strip due to gravity.

 

when I did my ceiling, my roof was off and upside down, so I was able to pull the perforated vinyl over the edge and tuck it up under the roof metal skin. I can visualize you’re trying to do this without removing the roof, so this isn’t an option for your approach.

 

you certainly might be able to get one side up and put the strip in, but tightening and getting it to the other side might be the challenge. Have you considered contact cement under the fabric before the strip? I’m just wondering how you’re going to hold the ceiling material in place before adding the strip.  If you were using perforate vinyl, you could possibly use a staple gun to tack down the fabric before adding the strip, but I think your using more of a cloth type fabric if I’m seeing it right. Not sure as I’ve never seen an ATC up close to see what they use for the ceiling material.

 

Anyhow, just thinking out loud with the above ideas. Hope that might be helpful.

 

Poky

Very helpful, thanks Poky


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#132 Vic Harder

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Posted 10 April 2020 - 02:23 AM

Good ideas M.R.H.  I'm done with insulating the ceiling, at least as much as I wanted to at this point:

Ceiling mostly ready for new cloth
  
 
There were two 1" thick bats of rockwool up there.  I took one out, and cut the rigid pink insulation on the table saw to get them super snug and to avoid gaps.  Where wires were routed, the wires typically were sandwiched between the two bats.  I left a small gap in the rigid insulation and reinstalled another layer of rock wool there.  Then taped it all to make it a solid vapor barrier.  Not that it is a complete barrier given that I didn't do the whole ceiling.  
 
I cut 1" wide 1/8" maple plywood I had left over from the interior siding, and finished it the same way with sealant, then 3 layers of Danish Oil.  Here it is drying before I rubbed it for the final finish.
replacement wood strips drying
 
I snapped a shot of where the 2nd vent/fan is pre-framed and wired on the forward driver's side:
extra vent or fan location

 

Note that the existing insulation didn't actually fill the whole void.  The spacing between the long rails varied, from about 12" to 14" for where the fan would be.  They obviously didn't cut 14" wide stips just for those, and used 12" bats everywhere.  I know there isn't a lot of insulation in a FWC/ATC, but this makes it worse.  I filled the gaps!

 

Now trying to decide if I want to install a "patch" or just keep going and remove the whole roof....   

 

 

 

 


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#133 Boonie

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Posted 11 April 2020 - 08:58 PM

Vic, 

 Reflections now on what your thinking was then?

 

I second what BillD said.  Forget about the 1% of the time, and go slow, and plan on remodeling along the way.  I rebuilt a Hawk Shell two years ago.  We supplement the camper with a 12' CLAM brand tent that we use as our outdoor shelter.  With the side walls and a Little Red Campfire, and when the weather is foul, it provides us a nice outdoor space to do most of our cooking and hanging out area.

 

Would do again:

- No padding on any benches, and don't miss them either. 

- No inside table

- LED lights inside the cabinets

- 130L TruckFridge mounted on top of propane box, door opens with hinge at front of camper.  Makes getting stuff out of the fridge without climbing into the camper itself a breeze.  (We cook outside)

- Used 3/8" birch plywood.  No voids, strong, and lighter than most builds.  Inside walls use 1/8" birch.  Rubbed oil finish.

- Large opening cabinets, so we have flexibility in what to stuff in there.

- 20g water tank, pump; plumbed so that that the "drain" valve (nice metal ball valve) has pressure for filling bottles and such outside)

- Propex heater

- Home designed/built solar/electrical system.  That's a whole 'nother thread - http://www.wanderthe...e-power-scotty/

 

Would NOT do again:

- faucet inside.  Thought we might do dishes inside, but that hasn't happened.

- batteries quiet as large.  I could have gone smaller capacity and saved some weight/space

- Stuff quite as many infrastructure pieces into small spaces.  This saved a huge amount of space, and yet can make maintenance a bit more work than it should be.  I like the overall benefit, but can also see why FWC "wastes" space for ease of future adjustments. 

 

Wish list:

- full queen bed WITHOUT slide out.  I hate having to rearrange bedding, and the lack of space with the bed pulled out.  I am thinking of a Grandby shell and using the first foot of floor space as additional bedding space with cabinets underneath.  The effective inside space would be like a Hawk.  OR, a flatbed Hawk/Fleet would have 5' bed as well

- Replace Propex with a TRUMA combined heater/water heater... for an outside shower... maybe... 

- more storage space

 

Boonie


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#134 Vic Harder

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Posted 12 April 2020 - 03:04 AM

Vic, 

 Reflections now on what your thinking was then?

Would do again:
 
1) No padding on any benches, and don't miss them either. 
-- Yup, still the same, except I have started using the camper as a remote office.  I have to sit in it for several hours in a row, so I wanted more comfy seating.  That said, using the BonVivo folding chairs gives us both... no padding normally, and padding when we want it.
 
 
2) No inside table.
-- Different now.  Same reason as above, I need a spot for my laptop, mouse, headset & coffee cup!  Plus which we want a place to play crib/cards on.  We still don't eat inside often though, so the lagun leg lets us swing the table out of the way most of the time.
 
3)  LED lights inside the cabinets
-- Yup.  Love the lighting.
 
4) 130L TruckFridge mounted on top of propane box, door opens with hinge at front of camper.  Makes getting stuff out of the fridge without climbing into the camper itself a breeze.  (We cook outside)
-- Mostly still true.  Would prefer the fridge in that location for convienience, but moved it as far forward as possible to minimize the bouncing it gets.  3 "refridgerator surprises" on the same trip was 3 too many.
 
5) Used 3/8" birch plywood.  No voids, strong, and lighter than most builds.  Inside walls use 1/8" birch.  Rubbed oil finish.
-- Yup.  I wish I could have found 4'x8' sheets of birch.  The baltic birch is a very strong wood.  The 1/2" stuff had 9 layers.  The maple I used on this build only has 5.
 
6) Large opening cabinets, so we have flexibility in what to stuff in there.
-- Sort of.  We went smaller this time, had have WAY MORE storage space than before.  We're hoping it helps with staying more organized.
 
7) 20g water tank, pump; plumbed so that that the "drain" valve (nice metal ball valve) has pressure for filling bottles and such outside)
-- Yup.  Went 30gal this time so we can stay boondocked longer.  We really like the outside pressurized water tap!
 
8) Propex heater.
-- Yup.  Went with the bigger 2800 model for more heat output in the bigger camper.  And their new digital thermostat which gives us more granular temp control.  We also mounted that right at the head end of the bed for the convenience of cranking the heat before climbing out of bed.
 
9) Home designed/built solar/electrical system.  
-- Yup.  Way better than most (all?) factory systems.  
 
 
Would NOT do again:
 
10) Faucet inside.  Thought we might do dishes inside, but that hasn't happened.
-- Nope.  Changed our minds on this one.  Making hot water inside for coffee/tea and sponge baths has been very nice.  Even added a nice flush mount sink and have liked the ability to do the whole morning routine without having to go outside until we are ready to break camp.
 
11) Batteries quiet as large.  I could have gone smaller capacity and saved some weight/space.
-- Nope!  Completely changed our minds on this one.  I went LiFePo4 and have 2x the actual capacity as before.  That said, they are smaller and take up less space and are waaaaay lighter.  One BattleBorn 100AH would have been plenty, except we wanted to try cooking on an Induction cooktop, inside and out and needed to be able to draw close to 200 Amps to power the 1800W this thing draws.  My wife likes the idea of no flame inside (no worries about starting a fire or carbon monoxide), and I like the idea of using even less propane.
 
12) Stuff quite as many infrastructure pieces into small spaces.  This saved a huge amount of space, and yet can make maintenance a bit more work than it should be.  I like the overall benefit, but can also see why FWC "wastes" space for ease of future adjustments. 
-- Yup.  I was very careful to leave everything easily accessible, AND still not waste space.
 
Wish list:
 
13) Full queen bed WITHOUT slide out.  I hate having to rearrange bedding, and the lack of space with the bed pulled out.  I am thinking of a Grandby shell and using the first foot of floor space as additional bedding space with cabinets underneath.  The effective inside space would be like a Hawk.  OR, a flatbed Hawk/Fleet would have 5' bed as well
-- Yup, and now we have it.  I think we are going to love having no pull out and still having the full queen sized sleeping area.  This was the main reason we picked up the Puma when we did.
 
14) Replace Propex with a TRUMA combined heater/water heater... for an outside shower... maybe... 
-- Kinda/sorta.  I looked at the TRUMA units.  It was super hard to find someone who would sell me a unit, as they are supposed to be installed by a certified tech.  I read the install manual and was amazed at how complicated a unit it is.  Plus I think you need to have at least two heat outlets.  We've been pretty happy with our NEMO portable shower, and heating the water up on a good campstove (Induction is slick, but the Camp Chef Everest is also super quick.)
 
15) More storage space.
-- Yup, and now we have it!

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#135 lmwilco1

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Posted 12 April 2020 - 03:29 PM

Vic,  I like the idea of a pressurized water valve outside the camper but how do you drain the water system?


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#136 Vic Harder

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Posted 12 April 2020 - 07:53 PM

Vic,  I like the idea of a pressurized water valve outside the camper but how do you drain the water system?

Turn on the taps and pump until empty.   :rolleyes:  The outside tap/drain is still the lowest point in the system.


Edited by Vic Harder, 12 April 2020 - 07:53 PM.

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#137 Vic Harder

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Posted 12 April 2020 - 11:20 PM

I've heard/read that ATC (and maybe FWC) injects expanding foam into some of the roof structure.  Can someone explain to me where/how this is done?  I have most of my roof exposed now and this would be a good time to do this....  thanks!


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#138 rando

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Posted 12 April 2020 - 11:51 PM

My hunch is that this is likely not worth the effort/mess.   The thermal transfer through the frame is almost all through conduction through the tube itself.   The thermal conductivity of aluminium is ~230 W/mK (about the best thermal conductor besides diamond), where as air is around 0.03. W/mK  + convection and radiation.  Filling the the tube with foam will stop convection/radiation, but that is likely small relative to the conduction through the tube itself.  The tubes could become slightly more rigid, but again likely to by an insignificant amount.   

 

That said, I don't know if FWC foam filled the tubes on my camper, so far I have not had to look inside them. 


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#139 rando

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Posted 12 April 2020 - 11:54 PM

Turn on the taps and pump until empty.   :rolleyes:  The outside tap/drain is still the lowest point in the system.

 

 

This a great idea.   We often fill water bottles/bladders outside, and it is frustratingly slow.  One question though - do you leave your pump power on, or can you reach the switch from outside?

 

We usually also drain the water tank using the pump through the sink - much faster than the drain valve.  


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#140 Vic Harder

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Posted 13 April 2020 - 01:30 AM

This a great idea.   We often fill water bottles/bladders outside, and it is frustratingly slow.  One question though - do you leave your pump power on, or can you reach the switch from outside?

 

We usually also drain the water tank using the pump through the sink - much faster than the drain valve.  

rando, the pump is off unless we plan to use it.  The pump switch is reachable from the door, so it is simple to turn on if I forget to turn it on before leaving the camper.  We turn it off when driving our away from camp.

 

Also, with the pump in the system, the drain valve will not "drain" any water unless the system is pressurized.  So, no chance some prankster could drain your camper on you.


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